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  Epipremnum
From: "Leslie R." leslier55 at excite.com> on 2003.10.22 at 12:06:30(10703)
Is there a proper botanical name for our common Pothos? I've seen Epipremnum pinnatum and Epipremnum falcifolium. Is one more proper than the other? Does anyone collect these plants? There are several interesting species, but I don't see much talk about them.Leslie RuleColumbia, MO USA

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From: Jonathan Ertelt jonathan.ertelt at vanderbilt.edu> on 2003.10.22 at 12:56:22(10704)
> Is there a proper botanical name for our common Pothos? I've seen
>Epipremnum pinnatum and Epipremnum falcifolium. Is one more proper than
>the other? Does anyone collect these plants? There are several
>interesting species, but I don't see much talk about them.

Leslie,

I believe that the common Pothos, known also as Golden Pothos or Devil's
Ivy, is botanically Epipremnum aureum (Lind. & Andre) Bunting.
Also, could you please get back to me if you still have an abundance of
seedlings of the Philodendron species you were writing about a month or so
back? Thanks.

Jonathan

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From: Thomas.Croat at mobot.org on 2003.10.22 at 13:31:18(10705)
Dear Leslie:

Pete Boyce says that it is actually a distinct species, Raphidophora
aureus, I believe, would you agree Pete?

Tom

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From: "Leslie R." leslier55 at excite.com> on 2003.10.22 at 13:58:26(10706)
So, our common Pothos is Raphidophora aureus? Botanical names are so confused. Is the yellow-variegated version the true coloring from the wild? I've had a Pothos for 30 years which is solid green, no variegation (and it's not a variegated one that's reverted to green). Leslie RuleColumbia, MO USA

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From: Thomas.Croat at mobot.org on 2003.10.22 at 15:24:48(10707)
Leslie:

I believe it may be Epipremnum aureus according to another message I
saw. In any event it a good species one way or another. I am just not sure
which genus.

tom

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From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2003.10.22 at 16:37:01(10708)
Dear Friends,

I believe I recall the last time we spoke w/ Pete Boyce he said he had encountered this species of variegated Epipremnum in the wild, and it was NOT a 'sport' of the all-green species as was previously thought, but a distinct and 'good' species. He said then that he was going to work on a paper about this new location in the wild.
I am certain that Pete will soon give us some good info.!
Leslie, these genera are different one from the other in subtle ways, the shape of the seed, the structure of the ovary, etc. At a glance at only their leaves they can be easily confused one with the other!!

Julius

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From: "Clarence Hammer" chammer at cfl.rr.com> on 2003.10.22 at 19:12:34(10709)
Hi Leslie. Epipremnum pinnatum and falcifolium are 2 different Aroids than
the
Pothos. E. pinnatum leaves in mature stage is big, all green, with deep
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From: Eugene Hoh hohe at symphony.net.au> on 2003.10.23 at 02:52:54(10710)
dear folks,

further to Julius's comments:
indeed - I hope he will, too, please!

I remember a similar discussion on aroid-L - where Peter was explaining, in his earlier work on Epipremnum, he treated the plant as E. pinnatum cv. 'Aureum' (see http://www.aroid.org/genera/epipremnum/eaureum.htm - the paper is on the IAS website). However, later, inspecting a wild plant from Moorea (E. mooreense , which he also
included under E pinnatum), he decided that it matched the green form of E. pinnatum cv. 'Aureum' - and that it should indeed be a distinct species.

There was then discussion from Wilbert re. which of the former names, (E. aureum or E. mooreense) should be reinstated for this species (expecting confusion if the common cultivar ended up as E. aureum 'Aureum'). I've found a link to this, in the aroid-L archives: http://www.hort.net/lists/aroid-l/jun01/msg00129.html

My apologies to Peter (and Wilbert) if this is a poor summary, and if I've spoken on your behalf without asking...

And sorry also, if this archive-trawling seems a bit obsessive and creepy...!
I just happened to pay special attention to this topic - E. pinnatum is one of few well-known aroids native to Australia. Also I once spent a very long year deeply entangled in Monsteroids - as an honours student researching the leaf holes.... yet I still have an affinity for them.

Eugene

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From: "Leslie R." leslier55 at excite.com> on 2003.10.23 at 06:31:24(10711)
I agree that the Marble Queen is a slow grower, even slower than the all-yellow (Neon). I grow mine to have a heavy degree of white variegation (but not too much, we know what happens then), which makes them grow even slower. Just bright lighting, good pruning, and choosing the best stem cuttings. Takes seemingly forever to get a good-sized plant. Perhaps my all-green is a different species than the yellow-variegated then? Although identical in growth, the all-green is a larger plant with thicker stems and bigger leaves. That's interesting. I'm anxious to see more research and information on this. I like this genus of plants and would enjoy seeing more interest in them. I like plants with history too, Russ, and I'm glad you are enjoying them. The contrast of the bright yellow Neon with darker plants is stunning. Leslie RuleColumbia, MO"In all things of nature there is something marvelous." - Aristotle--- On Wed 10/22, Clarence Hammer < chammer@cfl.rr.com > w!
rote:From: Clarence Hammer [mailto: chammer@cfl.rr.com]To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.eduDate: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:12:34 -0400Subject: Re: [aroid-l] EpipremnumHi Leslie. Epipremnum pinnatum and falcifolium are 2 different Aroids thanthePothos. E. pinnatum leaves in mature stage is big, all green, with deepsplits to the midrib, and tiny 'holes' along the midrib. I've never had afalcifolium, but it's also a different looking plant. Pothos has gone thruseemingly countless namechanges, not sure exactly where it ended. According to Graf's Tropica,Birdsey changed it from Scindapsus to Raphidophora in 1962. Then Buntingchanged it from Raphidiophora to Epipremnum in 1964. That's pretty oldinfo, I'll have to see if I canfind any more recent.I imagine the wild form is all green. I noticed today that your allyellow form shines in the shadehouse like a beacon in the dark among all thegreen Philos, brilliant and beautiful. Of the yellow variegated forms, Ilike the one I see occasionally that ha!
s a predominance of variegation,even the stems are yellow. Seems to be

a more intensely colored clone thanthe usual variegated Pothos.I like the white variegated 'Marble Queen', but it seems slower to me, andmore likelyto revert to all green. I don't think I've ever seen this growing up palmsand oakshere in Florida with huge 2 foot leaves and split edges like you see yellowvariegated Pothos. There are some magnificent Pothos growing higher thanI've ever seenon pine trees at Dr Frank Brown's (of Aglaonema fame) big garden at ValkariaFla.I'm glad to have a piece of your 30 year old green Pothos Leslie, I likeplants with some personal history.Russ

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From: "Peter Boyce" peterboyce at myjaring.net> on 2003.10.23 at 08:40:20(10712)
Hi all

Epipremnum aureum is the correct name for the plant cultivated as Golden
Pothos, Devil's Ivy, etc. The correct name and synonomy is:

Epipemnum aureum (Linden & Andr?) G.S. Bunting, Ann. Missouri Bot. Gard. 50
(1964, '1963') 28

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From: MossyTrail at cs.com on 2003.10.24 at 00:16:54(10713)
"Julius Boos" wrote:

> ?I believe I recall the last time we spoke w/ Pete Boyce he said he had encountered this species of variegated ?Epipremnum in the wild, and it was NOT a 'sport' of the all-green species as was previously thought, but a distinct and 'good' species. ? He said then that he was going to work on a paper about this new location in the wild.

Good. It will be interesting to see if there is any sympatry between them. The Epipremnums I saw in Botel Tobago (Aroideana 2002) did not appear variegated, but then, I was not really looking for that detail and may have missed it -- I did not know, then, that the plant I thought of as Scindapsus (golden pothos) was, in fact an Epipremnum.

Jason Hernandez

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From: Eugene Hoh hohe at symphony.net.au> on 2003.10.24 at 02:32:42(10714)
hello Peter,

good to hear about this, re. sorting out E. aureum.

oh, a question :
does 'wild-type' (non-cultivated, green) E. aureum have a restricted
distribution in Moorea - and are the wild populations doing well?

cheers
Eugene

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From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2003.10.24 at 02:41:16(10715)
dear folks,<<

Dear Eugene,

Thank you so very much for sharing the information with all of us, a most interesting letter!
Pete has replied, so all of us are now clear as to the status of this intriguing group of cultivars of this 'GOOD' specie!
It is so good belonging to this list where this rare information is available to the masses at a moment`s notice! Thanks Pete!

Julius

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From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2003.10.24 at 02:45:17(10716)
Dear Pete and Friends,

(I KNEW that you would come through for us, Pete!)
Remember, Friends, Pete and the Botanical community are still wanting blooms, infructesences, seeds, in fact any fertile material of this complex of plants. Fresh blooms should be preserved in alcohol for convenience. I suspect that it blooms HIGH in trees where you see it sort of drop offshoots or it/they may be the main growth shoot that fall and curve away from the tree, they are generally about 6-10 ft. long, very densely leaved w/ full-sized leaves. Because of the yellow and green color of the foliage, the spathes are almost impossible to observe. HOWEVER---in two cases that I know of this plant has bloomed in the adult size but on relatively short 'support-trees', so keep your eyes open!

Julius

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From: "Peter Boyce" peterboyce at myjaring.net> on 2003.10.25 at 02:24:01(10719)
Hi Eugene

'wild type' E, aureum is green (i.e., it resembles golden variegated E.
aureum when it reverts). There are very few collections of it from Moorea,
although it's common and quite widespread in the remaining forest.

The synonymy for E. pinnatum is:

Epipremnum pinnatum (L.) Engl. in Engl., Pflanzenr. 37 (IV.23B) (1908) 60 -
Pothos

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From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2003.10.26 at 05:32:46(10720)
Hi Eugene<<

Dear Pete,

Thanks so much for taking the time and trouble to post this exhaustive synonymy to this most interesting species, hopefully those with a better system than I have at present can keep this on file for the future!
I guess I must ask when (and if) you may publish something on this species or group of species?? Do you know if blooms are also as rare in the native/wild populations as they seem to be in Florida???
I`m not clear on your comment below--"'wild type E. aureum is green (I.e., it resembles golden variegated E. aureum when it reverts)." Did you mean to say that the variegated form reverts to the green form, or is it the other way around??? Is the variegated form common in wild populations??
Keep up the good work!

Sincerely,

Julius

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From: "Peter Boyce" peterboyce at myjaring.net> on 2003.10.27 at 03:13:59(10723)
Hi Julius

I'm putting together the other half of my Epipremnum mss at the moment
(i.e., the bit dealing with New Guinea & the Pacific) and which will tackle
E. aureum, etc. Perhaps it is also worth doing something for Aroideana
dealing with this but withou all the heavyweight stuff; just an overview of
the species and the synonomy?

There is a 'problem' in that the type of E. aureum is the 'sport; with
golden leaves, despite the fact that the wild plants re the green form that
we regard as a sport of the golden. This unfortunately means that we need a
horticultural cultivar name of the green form in order to distinguish it
from the golden, despite the fact that the golden form is very rare in the
wild (crazy eh?). The green leaves plan flowers quite regularly in the wild.

Pete

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From: "Derek Burch" derek at horticulturist.com> on 2003.10.27 at 11:18:37(10727)
Peter, a very loud and enthusiastic 'YES' to something on Epipremnum for
Aroideana. I am hoping that I can get Volume 27 put together in late
spring so that, with the usual delays, the issue may be out in time for
the show and sale in the fall. (Note to anyone panicking at seeing that
number - Volume 26 is teetering on the edge of being ready - proofs are
out, and I will stay on top of corrections - what I am doing here is
soliciting for next year to anyone who feels inclined ...)

Could you clear something for us now? Are the cultivars "Jade" and
'Marble Queen" a part of Epipremnum aureum? My impression in growing
them, as has come out before in these discussions, is that they have a
"feel" to them that suggests that they are not. (Excuse me for getting
technical!) They do seem to flip-flop from green to white variegation
and back - or perhaps it is more that Marble Queen often goes green, but
Jade rarely goes variegated.

Jade couldn't work for E. aureum, of course, if Jade and Marble Queen
are distinct from E. aureum. If the Jade/Marble Queen pair are out of
the running, do we even have a green plant that has come from E. aureum
(green or variegated), in the trade as a selection - a requirement if it
is to have a cultivar name? As you well know,you can't go popping a
cultivar(CULTIvated VARiety)name on a plant in the wild. The definition
is quite strict.

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From: Hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2003.10.27 at 11:25:45(10729)
I seem to remember either reading or perhaps thinking, that Epipremnums are
like the Monsteras of Pacific Asia. if this is some hallucination, please
excuse it, i have been known to make such judgements based only on looking
at plants and thinking i see some similarities...

hermine

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From: "Leslie R." leslier55 at excite.com> on 2003.10.27 at 11:41:08(10732)
I've had my Jade (I suppose that's what it is) for almost 30 years, and it's never grown any variegation, even when grown in bright light. The green is a darker, richer color than the variegated ones too, and the stems and leaves tend to be larger. My 'Marble Queen' will revert to green, but the green is paler and overall plant is smaller than the green one. Leslie RuleColumbia, MO

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From: "Peter Boyce" peterboyce at myjaring.net> on 2003.10.28 at 02:54:59(10737)
Hi Hermine

Absolutely spot on. In fact there are a suite of genera (Rhaphidophora,
Scindapsus, Epippremnum) in Asia with 'counterparts' in South America
(Monstera, Rhodospatha, Alloschemone).

Pete

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From: "Peter Boyce" peterboyce at myjaring.net> on 2003.10.28 at 02:56:28(10738)
Hi Derek

Delighted to put something together.

Jade, Marble Queen, etc, etc are all selected cultivars of E. aureum.

Pete

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From: "Neil Carroll" ncarz at charter.net> on 2003.10.28 at 09:51:12(10741)
Also.....

Aglaeonema/Diffenbachia
Amorphophallus/Dracontium
and probably more
Neil

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From: Hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2003.10.28 at 11:19:22(10743)
At 09:51 AM 10/28/2003, Neil Carroll wrote:

Also.....

Aglaeonema/Diffenbachia
Amorphophallus/Dracontium
and probably more
Neil
-

OK! i feel better now! i am occasionally overtaken by the need to organize
information, instead of storing it in a chaotic manner, and i did not want
to make an error based on my own system which is so heavily weighted by
visual judgements....

thanks!

herm

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From: "Peter Boyce" peterboyce at myjaring.net> on 2003.10.28 at 15:47:42(10747)
Yes, but in a different way. These genera are not directly related - so
these are ecological convergences rather than parallels.

Pete

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From: Hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2003.10.28 at 16:33:43(10748)
At 03:47 PM 10/28/2003, Peter Boyce wrote:

Yes, but in a different way. These genera are not directly related - so
these are ecological convergences rather than parallels.

Pete

well.....What i meant was when there is a special niche in the environment
for a particular kind of plant or animal, something seems to fill it...
I do not understand "ecological convergence"...but i am very keen to know
what you mean, in baby talk.

hermine

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From: MossyTrail at cs.com on 2003.10.28 at 22:51:47(10751)
"Neil Carroll" wrote:

>Also.....
>
>Aglaeonema/Diffenbachia
>Amorphophallus/Dracontium

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From: "bamboochik" bamboochik at earthlink.net> on 2003.10.29 at 02:34:44(10752)
Hermine it just means that In biology, there exists a similar evolutionary
phenomenon, called ecological convergence, where unrelated plants and
organisms adopt similar traits necessary to survive in comparably
challenging environments....b.f.n...deb

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From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2003.10.29 at 02:52:58(10753)
Hi Julius<<

Dear Pete,

Once again, many thanks for sharing your expertise with all of us on the list! As Derek says, I sure hope that we will see an article in Aroideana on this interesting and now VERY common feral plant here in S. Florida!
I take it that the spadix/flowers, etc. of both the green (natural) form and the variegated 'sport' have been compared to each other and are the same specie?? HEY! Let`s leave that answer for your article in Aroideana!

The Very Best,

Julius

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From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2003.11.06 at 16:06:53(10776)
Dear Aroidophiles,

As some of you may know or recall, the flowering of this plant has been of great interest to me for several years. I have just come across a most intriguing bit of information concerning its blooming that many may not be aware of, and may explain the scarcity of us finding blooms in nature! It is an article in Aroidiana Vol. 8, No. 2 by Alan Herndon ( I wonder if Alan still grows Aroids???) "Naturalized Aroids", it addresses the occurrence of several foreign aroid genera that have 'escaped' cultivation in S. Florida. Amongst others, he mentions what he calls 'Raphidophora aurea (Lind. & Andre) Birdsey, also called 'Hunter`s robe' and 'Golden Pothos', the old name for the plant under discussion.
About this plants flowering habits, he says---
"The plant seems to exhibit synchronized mass flowering, a very rare phenomenon in plants overall but common among bamboos. The plants grow for many years without flowering. Then, in response to some unknown factor, all plants from one clone bloom simultaneously, regardless of where they are in the world. A mass flowering of this sort was noted for Raphidophora aurea in 1960."
This may explain the reports of some blooming many years ago, but not one in recent years.
I witnessed a mass blooming of an introduced large bamboo species in Trinidad, W.I. many years ago when I still was living there. Thousands of bamboo clumps, all that we were aware of throughout the entire Island, all began to bloom. There were Newspaper reports of the same species blooming throughout the entire globe. After blooming on Trinidad, most of the bamboo clumps that had grown for perhaps close to 100 years all then died. This bamboo, I have been told, had been introduced in the hopes of producing raw material to make paper.
I wonder if Pete Boyce is aware of this report on the 1960 blooming in S. Florida, and also if any 'old timers' can remember and confirm it???

Good Growing,

Julius

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From: Plantman521 at aol.com on 2003.11.06 at 19:13:28(10777)
Dear Julius, Leslie, and all,
Your talk of the mass flowering of E. aureum was interesting. I have
had to remove large quantities of E. pinnatum from my yard, and have found a few
flowers each time. Last spring I found about 6 flowers when I removed a 60
foot tall queen palm that was covered with hundreds of feet of pinnatum vines.
And last week I found 3 flowers when I pulled down several hundred feet of
pinnatum vine from another palm tree. So it seems that this species does flower
normally, though not with lots of flowers at a time. Has anyone else seen
flowers on pinnatum in cultivation? And no, I have not seen flowers on my E.
aureum plants ever.

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From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2003.11.07 at 03:01:41(10779)
Dear Alan,

I have seen E. pinnatum in bloom at the Mounts Bot. Garden here in WPB.
The people I recall that have reported seeing a bloom on E. aurium are Derek Burch, Monroe Birdsey (deceased) and Lynn Hannon.
I look forward to hearing from others about this most interesting plant sp.!

Julius

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From: Eugene Hoh hohe at symphony.net.au> on 2003.11.07 at 04:20:16(10780)
hi Pete,

Thank you for posting that E. pinnatum synonymy list...
(pardon this v. delayed response - no time to write during a frantic couple of
weeks!)

Re. wild E. aureum:
Sounds like good news, that it is still common in Moorea - but is much known
about its ecology , reproduction and genetic variability in the wild? (...well
maybe it might not be so 'good', if the surviving populations turn out to be
rather homogeneous?)
Anyway, if you write that Aroideana piece on E. aureum - it would be excellent
if you could discuss these aspects of the species, please!

(And a more general rant: )
I find it disconcerting, but also interesting, to hear that such 'common
garden' plants we take for granted (not just aroids, but also other socially
important plants, esp. food crops) are so poorly understood as wild organisms:
how often they have confused taxonomy and origins, and how often new species
are described from things only known in cultivation (e.g. Philodendron xanadu,
Alocasia reginula). I guess, there should be cheers to the folk out there who
do give a damn about biodiversity in cultivated plants, and are doing all this
difficult work sorting them out...

regards
Eugene

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From: "Peter Boyce" peterboyce at myjaring.net> on 2003.11.07 at 16:18:47(10785)
Hi Eugene

I'll cover wild aureum in my Aroideana article.

I agree with you completely about how little we know about so many commonly
cultivated plants and confess to occasionally reaching levels close to
despair when considering what we don't
know about organisms in general; with the nursery being out in the
countryside here I see our ignorance on the drive to work every morning!

On the brighter side, we are very gradually beginning to get to grips at
least with some things. For example A. reginula has now been found in the
wild here in Borneo; A. cuprea has recently been formally recoded for the
first time in Sarawak and new sites have been discovered for A. melo.

Pete

From: MossyTrail at cs.com on 2003.11.07 at 22:55:58(10786)
Eugene Hoh wrote:

>Re. wild ?E. aureum:
>Sounds like good news, that it is still common in Moorea - but is much known
>about its ecology , reproduction and genetic variability in the wild? (...well
>maybe it might not be so 'good', if the surviving populations turn out to be
>rather homogeneous?)

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