Nymphaea/Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions...

From: <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2009.10.15 at 11:11:31(20182) Dear John and Friends, John, it certainly sounds like you have developed a very good method for growing Water Lilys (Nymphaeas) in the way you describe. BUT---a word of caution to growers or ''wanna-be'' Aquatic Aroid growers, Aroids are not Water Lilys, so I caution on using this method until someone like John has experimented with trying to grow a plant of say his Cyrtosperma johnstonii OR the ''Gran Etang" Lake Montrichardia (John, and luck with collecting seed of this as yet??) in the submerged pot with the old pig manure.   Oh, the term ''old pig manure'' leaves doubt, HOW old and decomposed is the pig manure?? Most of the Aroids such as Urospatha, Montrichardia, most other species of Cyrtosperma, etc. are rare and irreplacable here in the USA, and I have lost several during my early experimenting growing period in conditions like John describes for his Nymphaeas! John, try growing a Cyrtosperma in the pot as you describe and please report back to us in say a year or two on how it does! Good Growing, Julius HTML +More From: criswick@spiceisle.com To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:02:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions... I have had very variedsuccess with Nymphaeas.  The books say large containers with no holes andNO animal manure; only good topsoil.  Then you have to keep giving fertilizer(the Nymphaea fertilizer is EXPENSIVE) or the plants start decreasing in size.   But I observed that ayellow nymphaea which had grown over the edge of the pot, had sent roots spreadingin all directions in the gunk on the concrete floor of the pond (largely fish excrement). And the lily went wild!  Huge leaves and flowers.   So I started puttingnymphaeas in fairly wide, but very shallow plastic containers, reasoning thatthe roots like the aeration on the surface of the soil medium. I use cat littertrays or shallow �wash pans�  (pre-washing machine).  Inthe bottom I put 4 inches of well-rotted pig manure, topped by 4 inches ofloam.  I plant the nymphaea in the centre and cover the loam withsand.  Then I gently submerge the container in the 18 inch deep pond, but notkeeping the crown 6 to 8 inches below the water surface, as the books tell youto do.   I consistently getgood results that last for many, many months without adding more pig manure.   From:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Adam Black Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 11:22AM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtospermagrowing media suggestions...   I don't recall if anyone has mentioned it yet,but has anyone tried the "mesh" pots for aquatic aroids? I wouldimagine these would be beneficial to allow for better circulation through thepot and media. I think they are more commonly used for water lilies so wouldthink they would apply perfectly toward aroids. I have a Montrichardia in needof repotting and I am going to give it a try.   Adam -----Original Message----- From: John Criswick Sent: Oct 9, 2009 11:48 AM To: 'Discussion of aroids' Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing mediasuggestions... For some years I havehad a Cyrtosperma johnstonii growing just outside my concrete pond, which isabove ground level by 18 inches (45 cm.)  It used to be grown in anotherpond, with roots totally submerged in water.  Here it is in permanentlydamp soil and the soil is a very heavy, intractable clay loam, so it would notseem that it needs to be in moss, although that might provide theultimate/optimum of conditions.   In the attached photoyou can see the Cyrtosperma with a Typhonodourum lindleyi behind it, in thesame soil, and a Musa ornate to the right of it.     John.   From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com[mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] OnBehalf Of RAYMOMATTLA@cs.com Sent: Thursday, October 08, 20099:50 PM To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtospermagrowing media suggestions...   Jeremy,  I believe the AtlantaBotanical Gardens grew a very large C. johnstonii in what looked like (if I canremember right) a large rock bowl with just moss as the growing medium. Probably keep very moist but not too wet.  Just another suggestion. I wouldnt totally submerge the roots though... Thanks, Michael Mattlage No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.3/2414 - Release Date: 10/08/0918:33:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.10/2429 - Release Date: 10/12/09 04:01:00 --_0dbabeb9-0c9c-4208-ae36-31860905fdf8_----============== 31670932958487629=

From: "John Criswick" <criswick at spiceisle.com> on 2009.10.16 at 15:16:28(20185) Dear Jules, Goodto hear you sounding so frisky. I’mtruthfully mystified by all this, as I grow Montrichardia like a weed insubmerged pots of topsoil in my 18 inch deep pond. Actually the method Idescribed for Nymphaeas was not meant to be taken as a recommendation forgrowing aroids; just nymphaeas. Although, it would notsurprise me one bit if my aroids other than Montrichardia did well with thismethod. I have also grown Lhasia in submerged tubs of soil. It took overthe pond to such an extent that I hauled it all out. (And is it everprickly !) I’ll try aCyrtosperma, as you say. The reason I took the effin Cyrtosperma out ofthe pond is because it would too rapidly grow too enormous and top heavy andblow over in the pond. By old and well-rottedI mean smelling not like any kind of crap at all, but like leafmould. Lovely stuff ! John. HTML +More From:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of ju-bo@msn.com Sent: Thursday, October 15, 20097:12 AM To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject: [Aroid-l]Nymphaea/Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions... Dear John and Friends, John, it certainly sounds like you have developed a very good method forgrowing Water Lilys (Nymphaeas) in the way you describe. BUT---a word of caution to growers or ''wanna-be'' Aquatic Aroid growers,Aroids are not Water Lilys, so I caution on using this method until someonelike John has experimented with trying to grow a plant of say his Cyrtospermajohnstonii OR the ''Gran Etang" Lake Montrichardia (John, and luck withcollecting seed of this as yet??) in the submerged pot with the old pigmanure. Oh, the term ''old pig manure'' leaves doubt, HOW old anddecomposed is the pig manure?? Most of the Aroids such as Urospatha, Montrichardia, most other species ofCyrtosperma, etc. are rare and irreplacable here in the USA, and I have lostseveral during my early experimenting growing period in conditions like Johndescribes for his Nymphaeas! John, try growing a Cyrtosperma in the pot as you describe and please reportback to us in say a year or two on how it does! Good Growing, Julius From: criswick@spiceisle.com To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:02:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions... I have had very variedsuccess with Nymphaeas. The books say large containers with no holes andNO animal manure; only good topsoil. Then you have to keep givingfertilizer (the Nymphaea fertilizer is EXPENSIVE) or the plants start decreasingin size. But I observed that ayellow nymphaea which had grown over the edge of the pot, had sent rootsspreading in all directions in the gunk on the concrete floor of the pond(largely fish excrement). And the lily went wild! Huge leaves andflowers. So I started puttingnymphaeas in fairly wide, but very shallow plastic containers, reasoning thatthe roots like the aeration on the surface of the soil medium. I use cat littertrays or shallow “wash pans” (pre-washing machine). Inthe bottom I put 4 inches of well-rotted pig manure, topped by 4 inches ofloam. I plant the nymphaea in the centre and cover the loam withsand. Then I gently submerge the container in the 18 inch deep pond, but notkeeping the crown 6 to 8 inches below the water surface, as the books tell youto do. I consistently getgood results that last for many, many months without adding more pig manure. From:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Adam Black Sent: Monday, October 12, 200911:22 AM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtospermagrowing media suggestions... I don't recall if anyone has mentioned ityet, but has anyone tried the "mesh" pots for aquatic aroids? I wouldimagine these would be beneficial to allow for better circulation through thepot and media. I think they are more commonly used for water lilies so wouldthink they would apply perfectly toward aroids. I have a Montrichardia in needof repotting and I am going to give it a try. Adam -----OriginalMessage----- From: John Criswick Sent: Oct 9, 2009 11:48 AM To: 'Discussion of aroids' Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions... For some years I havehad a Cyrtosperma johnstonii growing just outside my concrete pond, which isabove ground level by 18 inches (45 cm.) It used to be grown in anotherpond, with roots totally submerged in water. Here it is in permanentlydamp soil and the soil is a very heavy, intractable clay loam, so it would notseem that it needs to be in moss, although that might provide theultimate/optimum of conditions. In the attached photoyou can see the Cyrtosperma with a Typhonodourum lindleyi behind it, in thesame soil, and a Musa ornate to the right of it. John. From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com[mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] OnBehalf Of RAYMOMATTLA@cs.com Sent: Thursday, October 08, 20099:50 PM To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtospermagrowing media suggestions... Jeremy, I believe the AtlantaBotanical Gardens grew a very large C. johnstonii in what looked like (if I canremember right) a large rock bowl with just moss as the growing medium. Probably keep very moist but not too wet. Just another suggestion. I wouldnt totally submerge the roots though... Thanks, Michael Mattlage No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.3/2414 - Release Date: 10/08/0918:33:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.10/2429 - Release Date: 10/12/0904:01:00 ------=_NextPart_000_017B_01CA4E52.1DA57D30----==============20462180921272596=

From: "John Criswick" <criswick at spiceisle.com> on 2009.10.17 at 20:36:10(20188) Dear Julius, I recentlyplanted this short Cyperus sp. in a cat litter tray of animal manure andtopsoil. In about two weeks it can be clearly seen that the Cyperus is sendingout roots ON TOP OF the medium, but under the surface of the water. It wouldbe interesting to know if a similar spreading of roots is occurring under thesurface of the medium. John. HTML +More From:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of ju-bo@msn.com Sent: Thursday, October 15, 20097:12 AM To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject: [Aroid-l] Nymphaea/Cyrtospermagrowing media suggestions... Dear John and Friends, John, it certainly sounds like you have developed a very good method forgrowing Water Lilys (Nymphaeas) in the way you describe. BUT---a word of caution to growers or ''wanna-be'' Aquatic Aroid growers,Aroids are not Water Lilys, so I caution on using this method until someonelike John has experimented with trying to grow a plant of say his Cyrtospermajohnstonii OR the ''Gran Etang" Lake Montrichardia (John, and luck withcollecting seed of this as yet??) in the submerged pot with the old pigmanure. Oh, the term ''old pig manure'' leaves doubt, HOW old anddecomposed is the pig manure?? Most of the Aroids such as Urospatha, Montrichardia, most other species ofCyrtosperma, etc. are rare and irreplacable here in the USA, and I have lostseveral during my early experimenting growing period in conditions like Johndescribes for his Nymphaeas! John, try growing a Cyrtosperma in the pot as you describe and please reportback to us in say a year or two on how it does! Good Growing, Julius From: criswick@spiceisle.com To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:02:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions... I have had very variedsuccess with Nymphaeas. The books say large containers with no holes andNO animal manure; only good topsoil. Then you have to keep givingfertilizer (the Nymphaea fertilizer is EXPENSIVE) or the plants startdecreasing in size. But I observed that ayellow nymphaea which had grown over the edge of the pot, had sent rootsspreading in all directions in the gunk on the concrete floor of the pond(largely fish excrement). And the lily went wild! Huge leaves andflowers. So I started puttingnymphaeas in fairly wide, but very shallow plastic containers, reasoning that theroots like the aeration on the surface of the soil medium. I use cat littertrays or shallow “wash pans” (pre-washing machine). In the bottom Iput 4 inches of well-rotted pig manure, topped by 4 inches of loam. Iplant the nymphaea in the centre and cover the loam with sand. Then Igently submerge the container in the 18 inch deep pond, but not keepingthe crown 6 to 8 inches below the water surface, as the books tell you to do. I consistently getgood results that last for many, many months without adding more pig manure. From:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Adam Black Sent: Monday, October 12, 200911:22 AM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtospermagrowing media suggestions... I don't recall if anyone has mentioned ityet, but has anyone tried the "mesh" pots for aquatic aroids? I wouldimagine these would be beneficial to allow for better circulation through thepot and media. I think they are more commonly used for water lilies so wouldthink they would apply perfectly toward aroids. I have a Montrichardia in needof repotting and I am going to give it a try. Adam -----OriginalMessage----- From: John Criswick Sent: Oct 9, 2009 11:48 AM To: 'Discussion of aroids' Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions... For some years I havehad a Cyrtosperma johnstonii growing just outside my concrete pond, which isabove ground level by 18 inches (45 cm.) It used to be grown in anotherpond, with roots totally submerged in water. Here it is in permanentlydamp soil and the soil is a very heavy, intractable clay loam, so it would notseem that it needs to be in moss, although that might provide theultimate/optimum of conditions. In the attached photoyou can see the Cyrtosperma with a Typhonodourum lindleyi behind it, in thesame soil, and a Musa ornate to the right of it. John. From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com[mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] OnBehalf Of RAYMOMATTLA@cs.com Sent: Thursday, October 08, 20099:50 PM To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtospermagrowing media suggestions... Jeremy, I believe the AtlantaBotanical Gardens grew a very large C. johnstonii in what looked like (if I canremember right) a large rock bowl with just moss as the growing medium. Probably keep very moist but not too wet. Just another suggestion. I wouldnt totally submerge the roots though... Thanks, Michael Mattlage No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.3/2414 - Release Date: 10/08/0918:33:00 No virus found in this incomingmessage. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.10/2429 - Release Date: 10/12/0904:01:00 ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01CA4F47.F151E970--------=_NextPart_000_0017_01CA4F47.F151E970

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