Amorphophallus titanum

From: Don Burns <burns at mobot.org> on 1997.01.03 at 13:54:07(45) A note to all you folks keeping track of A. titanum..... my plants are beginning their winter slumber. One has gone dormant and several others are showing symptoms. Several of the plants have recently shot up new growth, however, and I am concerned that the tubers may be exhausted. If they go dormant I may be without tubers - any thoughts about this? Fortunately the weather here has been quite warm, 78-82 degF lately so they may stay up long enough to go dormant with a tuber at the base. +More Most of the plants reached a height of about 100 cm this year. It is almost two years since they were started from seed from Jim Symon. Don

From: "Carlo A. Balistrieri" <cabalist at facstaff.wisc.edu> on 1997.01.31 at 14:10:56(272) Dear Aroiders, If anyone has any spare A. titanum tubers (small) please contact me privately. Carlo +More Carlo A. Balistrieri, J.D. Email: CABalist@facstaff.wisc.edu P.O. Box 327 Ashippun, WI 53003-0327 U.S.A. Voice: 414.569.1902 Telefax: same number, please call ahead.

From: MJ Hatfield <oneota at ames.net> on 1997.05.05 at 04:30:34(712) I believe my A.titanum is going dormant (I hope it's not dying)for the first time. Slowly, one leaflet at a time has turned yellow and now the petiole is beginning to slump. I have quit watering. Should I wait until the petiole and leaves are completely limp before unpotting and inspecting? Should I repot it in fresh soil in a larger pot? Should I then wait, patiently, for several months until there are signs of new growth, at which time I should I begin watering? Thanks for any expert advice. MJ Hatfield

From: Malvo25 at aol.com on 1999.01.04 at 02:40:06(2871) Two questions: First, would you expect me to have any success trying to grow A. titanum in North Shore Long Island (zone 6 or 7) either in the ground or in a container. I can dig up the bulb, or bring the container inside to a greenhouse for the winter that is kept at 50 degrees. Second, if there is any hope of growing one, where can I get it? I tried once before when Plant Delights had some available, but it barely grew, and turned to mush when I dug it up in October.

From: plantnut at macconnect.com (Dewey Fisk) on 1999.01.30 at 03:19:19(2968) I have available a very limited quantity of small Amorphophallus titanum. If you are interested, send me a *private* e-mail. . Moderators will trash replys to the list. Word of caution - International orders can not be considered because of Phytosanitary Certificate restrictions. Dewey +More Dewey E. Fisk, Plant Nut THE PHILODENDRON PHREAQUE Your Source for Tropical Araceae

From: "Paul Kruse" pkruse2000 at earthlink.net> on 2000.02.06 at 17:34:56(4057) I am a retired biological oceanographer with a minor in botany, from the University of Miami (C.G.). In 1980 I planted three A. titanum corms in my yard at Naples, Florida. The soil there is calcareous with a pH of around 8.2 and is poor in nutrients. The area experiences long dry spells. In spite of these conditions, and without any cultural assistance, the plants grew to about three feet in height. They were exposed to quite a bit of direct sunlight. The plants went dormant in the winter and came up the following spring. In 1983 two of the plants produced dinner plate sized blooms. I did not write this up because I felt the plants posed no cultural difficulties. I moved to St. Croix (U.S.V.I.) in 1985. The soil and growing conditions there were similar to Florida, with the exceptions of mild winters. Three years ago I received a plant from a botanist friend of mine, who owned a large commercial nursery on the island. Her two plants were between three and four feet in height and had received no care. St. Croix is considered a dry island and the summers there can often be a six months drought period. When I dug up my plant there were no roots and the corm was about the size of a grapefruit. +More I planted it in potting soil and when it sprouted the next year it grew to nine feet in height. Living in an apartment and not having an outside growing area, the plant was somewhat spindly and the petiole required support. I brought the corm with me when I returned to Naples. Under a 140 watt grow light it hs reached nine feet in height and is rather spindly. I have now substituted two 100 watt lamps in an effort to determine the minimum amount of light for growers who have to keep their plants inside. My botanist friend also considered the plants to be very hardy. Paul Kruse

From: "Paul Kruse" pkruse2000 at mindspring.com> on 2000.03.16 at 04:07:30(4223) I have been growing this plant since 1980 and a friend of mine would like a specimen. I would appreciate it if you could suggest a commercial source . I had previously found a source for young plants from stem cells. Unfortunately I cannot relocate this source. Your assistance would be sincerely appreciated. Paul Kruse. pkruse2000@mindspring.com

From: Plantbob at aol.com on 2000.03.17 at 04:01:26(4226) Paul, There is a company in N.J. that has a few for sale. You can reach them thru their web site which is: www.dragonagro.com Good luck, Bob

From: "Paul Kruse" pkruse2000 at mindspring.com> on 2000.03.18 at 01:57:45(4236) Thank you for the dragonagro address. I will give it to my friend. Someone else asked for the address if I got it, so I will foreward the address to them. thanks again.

From: Piabinha at aol.com on 2000.03.18 at 05:16:16(4241) another source for A. titanum might be plant delights nursery in NC. at least it was listed in their catalog ($200) a few years ago, although it's not listed in their latest one. tsuh yang chen, nyc, USA

From: Plantbob at aol.com on 2000.03.18 at 05:25:45(4242) Plants Delight has not had the A. titanum for a few years. They do have other Amorphophallus which I have ordered and enjoyed. Bob

From: "Bjoern Malkmus" bjoern.malkmus at verwaltung.uni-mainz.de> on 2000.07.09 at 02:39:26(5025) Being back from Bonn I can tell you that it was impressive indeed, not only the inflorescense (which unfortunately was fully opend only from Thursday 7pm to Friday 11am), the fact that it was the third largest of its kind in cultivation, but as well that only today some estimated 10.000 more or less plant-addicts came to BG Bonn to see it. +More People filed from the green-houses to the street later this afternoon . waiting some 3 hours to have a short glimpse on the plant. When I left the garden at 6pm the queue was even longer than at noon ... Indeed its out-of-the-"ordinary" size attracts people ! Fortunately I had the opportunity to talk a couple of minutes to one of the cultivators and I got some interesting information from him. - For the last inflorescense in 1996 they took pollen which had been stored in liquid nitrogen for more than 12 months and they had an overall 95% seed setting in 1996 ... This time there was no (frozen) pollen available, so there won't be any seeds. Hower fresh pollen was collected from this specimen and already deep-frozen for the next inflorescense to come. - Tubers from this species (and most likely from others as well) will increase more rapidly if they receive a full dosis of fertilizer on the point of new growth, i.e. as soon as new roots develop. In my cultivation I had always waited for the tubers to develop sufficient root mass before I started to fertilize them as I thought that at that point plants might take best advantage of nutrients. This was probably wrong: if fertilized on the point of new growth the petiole (and leaflets) will get significantly larger and due to that it may produce more nutrients to increase tubers. - Another technique to multiply this species is to make leaf-cuttings from the first three Y-petioles, cutting off leaflets and adding some rooting hormone (couldn't tell me which one) along the cuts. Cuttings are placed horizontally (!) and not vertically on substrate. These cuttings will produce new callus at the basal and along (!) the petiole cuts in a couple of months while the cutting itself is dying down. These callus will make new leaves after a "while" (whatever this means ..). Essential for success are high temperatures and high air humidity. It's only a pity that I didn't have more time to get to know more, however I think these might be interesting news to some of you. PD: Julius, I tried in forcing the tuber to produce offsets in a more "natural" way by chosing a very small pot - yet without success. It did work for A. krausei and A. konjac but at least I didn't have any luck in A. titanum. And as seedings are sold for some 100 bucks, I really d o n o t recommend to anyone to cut their tubers - unless you can live without it. Tubers are indeed prone to easily rotting ! So maybe taking one third of a petiole in order to make a leaf cutting is more sane in the sense that it is more likely that your plant will survive. Cheers and good night, Bjorn Malkmus

From: Marc Gibernau gibernau at cict.fr> on 2003.06.27 at 12:36:31(10358) Dear Aroiders, A short message to mention that Amorphophallus titanum is flowering (or very soon) for the first time in France at the Botanical Garden of Brest. All the best, Marc

From: "David Ruland" <druland at atlantabotanicalgarden.org> on 2004.07.14 at 19:54:17(11756) Hello all, would like to let anyone who is interested know that our Amorphophallus titanum here at the Atlanta Botanical Garden is due to bloom soon, probably in the next week or so. The tuber weighed in at about 80 lbs. when we repotted it at the end of June so hopefully it will be a big one. Will keep everyone posted as I know more. If anyone knows of any others blooming around now I would like to obtain some pollen.Come visit us. David Ruland

From: "Julius Boos" <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2004.07.14 at 23:46:37(11759) >From: "David Ruland" >Reply-To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu >To: +More >Subject: [aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum >Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:54:17 -0400 > Dear David, Congrats! There is one presently blooming or one that just bloomed bloomed at the U. of Conn., write to Matthew Opel--- >Matthew.Opel@huskeymail.uconn.edu< Check the site at --- >http://www.ucon.edu< There is one blooming nearer to you at Disney`s Animal Kingdom in Orlando, I have deleted the letters concerning this one, so hopefully someone else will give you the name and address of the person to contact there. I so hope you get good pollen, maybe phone Disney in the morning, it may be worth the drive to get fresh or chilled pollen. Where does your plant originate, seed ex: Jim Symon and Dewey Fisk??? Good Luck, Julius >Hello all, would like to let anyone who is interested know that our Amorphophallus titanum here at the Atlanta Botanical Garden is due to bloom soon, probably in the next week or so. The tuber weighed in at about 80 lbs. when we repotted it at the end of June so hopefully it will be a big one. Will keep everyone posted as I know more. If anyone knows of any others blooming around now I would like to obtain some pollen.Come visit us. David Ruland

From: Plantbob at aol.com on 2004.07.18 at 02:04:44(11768) Any word on the blooming time for the A. titanum in Atlanta?? Thanks, Bob

From: "Charles Gramling" <chazmg1 at citlink.net> on 2004.07.18 at 03:21:58(11769) Looks like this week http://www.atlantabotanicalgarden.org/events_and_exhibits/details/corpse_flo wer.htm +More Chuck -----Original Message----- Behalf Of Plantbob@aol.com Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 9:05 PM To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum Any word on the blooming time for the A. titanum in Atlanta?? Thanks, Bob

From: James Waddick <jwaddick at kc.rr.com> on 2004.07.26 at 13:51:44(11821) Looks like this week http://www.atlantabotanicalgarden.org/events_and_exhibits/details/corpse_flo wer.htm +More The direct link is http://www.atlantabotanicalgarden.org/events_and_exhibits/details/corpse_flower.htm I visited the garden last Tuesday and the unopened inflorescence was close to the picture for July 22. There is a sign next to the plant about how stinky it will be when it opens. It was odd to see people read the sign and then say they could smell it already, "just a little". I detected no scent, but the power of the sign was evident. Atalanta was experiencing some cooler weather so I suspect opening might have been delayed some. Maybe this week? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F +

From: "David Ruland" <druland at atlantabotanicalgarden.org> on 2004.07.26 at 16:23:20(11823) I again will venture a guess...Maybe Wednesday. I am surprised how long it is taking. But it keeps growing. This morning I measured the height at 6ft. 2 in. David Ruland +More -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 9:52 AM To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum >Looks like this week >http://www.atlantabotanicalgarden.org/events_and_exhibits/details/corps e_flo >wer.htm The direct link is http://www.atlantabotanicalgarden.org/events_and_exhibits/details/corpse _flower.htm I visited the garden last Tuesday and the unopened inflorescence was close to the picture for July 22. There is a sign next to the plant about how stinky it will be when it opens. It was odd to see people read the sign and then say they could smell it already, "just a little". I detected no scent, but the power of the sign was evident. Atalanta was experiencing some cooler weather so I suspect opening might have been delayed some. Maybe this week? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F +

From: "Bryant, Susan L." <SLBryant at scj.com> on 2004.07.26 at 16:26:50(11824) Time to get out that flowered shirt, David! To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum +More I again will venture a guess...Maybe Wednesday. I am surprised how long it is taking. But it keeps growing. This morning I measured the height at 6ft. 2 in. David Ruland

From: Araceae <araceae at earthlink.net> on 2004.08.01 at 23:45:08(11905) Has the Amorphophallus titanum bug been munching at you.... Want to try your skill at getting the big smell? I have a few A. titanum available. For information and a photo of a representative plant.... send an e-mail to araceae@earthlink.net with the subject line of "Amorph. titanum". I get lots of junk mail and unless there is something about a message that I recognize... the message gets trashed - unopened... +More Sorry, but U.S.A replies only. I do not wish to go thru the hassle of Phytosanitary Certificates and expensive overseas postage... Very sorry. DO NOT HIT THE REPLY BUTTON AND REPLY TO AROID-L.... The Moderators will trash all messages that are replies to the list. Also, from time to time.... on rare occasions... I will send out notices of other unusual plants that I might have available... I have a mailing list. If you would like to be on it... please indicate. Dewey

From: Ronmchatton at aol.com on 2005.06.29 at 20:56:23(13078) Please forgive the short commercial, but for those interested Worldwide Tropicals has fresh titanum seed available for as long as we can hold them. You can see the listing www.worldwidetropicals.com Regards, Ron McHatton +More _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Dietmar Kiehlmann" Kiehlmann at gmx.de> on 2006.05.08 at 23:13:56(14131) Hi all, Never seen before: One specimen of A.titanum is going to flower with 3 inflorescences at Botanic Gardens Bonn! The tuber had the enormous weight of 117 kg after the last growing period. Gallery: http://botgart.uni-bonn.de/o_samm/gal06.html Webcam: http://botgart.uni-bonn.de/titan2006.php Best regards Margret Kiehlmann +More _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "snowsexotics" snowsexotics at cox.net> on 2006.05.09 at 00:54:30(14133) I am unable to view the webcam....wondering if anyone else is also? Snow +More SNOW'S EXOTICS ALL THINGS EXOTIC! www.snowsexotics.com ----- Original Message ----- To: "Discussion of aroids" Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 4:13 PM Subject: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum Hi all, Never seen before: One specimen of A.titanum is going to flower with 3 inflorescences at Botanic Gardens Bonn! The tuber had the enormous weight of 117 kg after the last growing period. Gallery: http://botgart.uni-bonn.de/o_samm/gal06.html Webcam: http://botgart.uni-bonn.de/titan2006.php Best regards Margret Kiehlmann _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Susan Cox" snalice at dslextreme.com> on 2006.05.09 at 04:18:22(14137) The web cam says: 'noch oben'.......I wish it was 'knocked open'. Could that mean 'not running at the moment'? The cam window is black. OR........it's night there? +More > I am unable to view the webcam....wondering if anyone else is also? > > Snow _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Steve Hatfield" sehatfield at insightbb.com> on 2006.05.09 at 16:43:28(14143) Way too cool!!! Are there any gardens in the Midwest US. (Im from Indiana) Growing a titanium or a good selection of Amorphophallus??? I need to see more. +More -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Dietmar Kiehlmann Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 7:14 PM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum Hi all, Never seen before: One specimen of A.titanum is going to flower with 3 inflorescences at Botanic Gardens Bonn! The tuber had the enormous weight of 117 kg after the last growing period. Gallery: http://botgart.uni-bonn.de/o_samm/gal06.html Webcam: http://botgart.uni-bonn.de/titan2006.php Best regards Margret Kiehlmann _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 5/8/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 5/8/2006 _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Susan B honeybunny442 at yahoo.com> on 2006.05.09 at 18:32:20(14146) UW-Madison in Wisconsin has flowered a few, they have the purple spadix with spathe crossed left over right. see Big Bucky: http://www.acresofaroids.com/Page_T2.htm (don't yell Wilbert, I haven't updated the name changes you told me about) They have some Dracontium but no other Aroids of interest. They probably have some leafy things.... :) They are re-doing their greenhouses this summer so I don't know if they are open. St. Louis?? also had one that flowered a tiny one that was about 2 feet high, it was really cute! Susan +More --- Steve Hatfield wrote: > Way too cool!!! Are there any gardens in the > Midwest US. (Im from Indiana) > Growing a titanium or a good selection of > Amorphophallus??? I need to see > more. > > -----Original Message----- > From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com > [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] > On Behalf Of Dietmar Kiehlmann > Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 7:14 PM > To: Discussion of aroids > Subject: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum > > Hi all, > > Never seen before: One specimen of A.titanum is > going to flower with > 3 inflorescences at Botanic Gardens Bonn! The tuber > had the enormous > weight of 117 kg after the last growing period. > > Gallery: > http://botgart.uni-bonn.de/o_samm/gal06.html > Webcam: http://botgart.uni-bonn.de/titan2006.php > > Best regards > Margret Kiehlmann > > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-l mailing list > Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - > Release Date: 5/8/2006 > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - > Release Date: 5/8/2006 > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-l mailing list > Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: ironious2 at yahoo.com (E Morano) on 2008.05.03 at 19:32:13(17540) I have some Titanum's that have gone dormant. I need to know how to care for the dormant bulbs. They dont look like most other amorphs that can be stored dry but I could be wrong so thats why Im asking. Thank you --------------------------------- +More Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080503/fa1b0b1a/attachment.htm

From: fzeren at aol.com (fzeren at aol.com) on 2008.05.04 at 17:09:54(17548) soil sould be moist, a wel, well, well drained potting mix soil. Cover atleast 2 inch above the tuber. take tuber out ( once a month ?)and check for?soft spots/rots?. Dont add any plant food into water during dormant season, temperature should be around 85 F( Dont fluctuate temperature) . It should be OK, hopely zeren +More -----Original Message----- From: E Morano To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Sat, 3 May 2008 2:32 pm Subject: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum I have some Titanum's that have gone dormant. I need to know how to care for the dormant bulbs. They dont look like most other amorphs that can be stored dry but I could be wrong so thats why Im asking. Thank you Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080504/172a1f3c/attachment.htm

From: bill.weaver at hp.com (Weaver, Bill) on 2008.05.05 at 21:26:56(17556) I'd really suggest not handling the corm during dormancy. The possibility of injuring the corm and actually inducing a rot is too great. I don't even re-pot it until the corm shows signs of new growth. Bill +More ________________________________ From: aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of fzeren at aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 10:10 AM To: aroid-l at gizmoworks.com Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum soil sould be moist, a wel, well, well drained potting mix soil. Cover atleast 2 inch above the tuber. take tuber out ( once a month ?)and check for soft spots/rots . Dont add any plant food into water during dormant season, temperature should be around 85 F( Dont fluctuate temperature) . It should be OK, hopely zeren -----Original Message----- From: E Morano To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Sat, 3 May 2008 2:32 pm Subject: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum I have some Titanum's that have gone dormant. I need to know how to care for the dormant bulbs. They dont look like most other amorphs that can be stored dry but I could be wrong so thats why Im asking. Thank you ________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l ________________________________ Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080505/6d10f2db/attachment-0001.htm

From: "Jared R. McKinley" <jaredr.mckinley at gmail.com> on 2009.03.07 at 00:13:04(19165) Yay! I got my first four seedlings. They look great. I would love to hear everyone's experiences with this species. I have been around these plants before, but I would like to hear what various techniques people have used. I intend on pushing three of them, keeping one on a moderate level in case I get too greedy. I am growing organically, and will be using a fungal-based compost tea and feeding fungal based foods for the soil. If this sounds like Greek sorry, I have totally abandoned the use of water soluble fertilizers. I am taking a more pro-biotic approach to growing EVERYTHING. Though I am not judgmental about those who stay with the old ways of doing things. I wonder how many people have tried to grow plants like aroids this way? Anyway, like I said, I will be pushing this plant. I live in Tucson, in a very hot climate. My plant will be in a humid greenhouse, and I will not let temperatures get above 95. I might even try a little lower, though titanums can usually take good heat from what I hear. This plant will get really good sun too (pretty much a filtered full sun--33% shade cloth) which here is pretty damn bright. Even as seedlings I have to day, these plants are pretty frickin' handsome. -- ((Expecto Patronum)) Jared R. McKinley HTML +More Horticulturist/Botanist Mercury Ventures 6700 S. X9 Ranch Rd Vail, AZ 85641-6202 Cell: (520) 730-8583 --000e0cd2bdf4ea80ee04647c43a1----==============24424752844388288=

From: Eduardo Gomes Goncalves <eduardo.goncalves at inhotim.org.br> on 2011.02.03 at 15:34:32(21851) Dear fellows, I have a silly (but important) question for you. As far as I know, Amophophallus is a masculine word, am I correct? In Latin, except for the name of traditional trees (Malus, Pyrus, etc), all names ended in -us are male names. So it is correct to say that all adjective epithets in Amorphophallus species end with -us (A. gomboczianus, A. hirsutus, A lunatus, A. glaucophyllus, etc). Why Amophophallus titanum is not A. titanus? Other species with a similar epithet (I don't remember none in plant kingdom, but I know Dorcus titanus - a beetle)... Wilbert, do you have any reason for this? Very best wishes, Eduardo. HTML +More INHOTIM Dr. EDUARDO G. GON�ALVES Curador Bot�nico Jardim Bot�nico Rua B, 20 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604.8618 Ramal 380 Rua Ant�nio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcion�rios 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil +55 31 3223.8224 Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente. --Apple-Mail-4-612492658-- --==============596329571798038004=

From: Peter Boyce <phymatarum at googlemail.com> on 2011.02.06 at 02:49:02(21853) Dear Eduardo, I am sure than Dan dealt with this in his 1987 Aroideana [10(3): 15-25] paper, but I don't have it to hand at the moment since I'm in Pinang. Peter HTML +More On 3 February 2011 23:34, Eduardo Gomes Goncalves wrote: > > Dear fellows, > I have a silly (but important) question for you. As far as I know, Amophophallus is a masculine word, am I correct? > In Latin, except for the name of traditional trees (Malus, Pyrus, etc), all names ended in -us are male names. So it is correct to say that all adjective epithets in Amorphophallus species end with -us (A. gomboczianus, A. hirsutus, A lunatus, A. glaucophyllus, etc). > Why Amophophallus titanum is not A. titanus? Other species with a similar epithet (I don't remember none in plant kingdom, but I know Dorcus titanus - a beetle)... Wilbert, do you have any reason for this? > Very best wishes, > Eduardo. > > > INHOTIM > Dr. EDUARDO G. GON�ALVES > > Curador Bot�nico > > Jardim Bot�nico > > Rua B, 20 > 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil > +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604.8618 Ramal 380 > > Rua Ant�nio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcion�rios > 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil > +55 31 3223.8224 > > Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-L mailing list > Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > --20cf30433d106eae5e049b94289f-- --==============)87563211539560861=

From: "Marek Argent" <abri1973 at wp.pl> on 2011.02.06 at 03:50:15(21854) Dear Eduardo, A good point. The suffix -um is neutral and it fits to all grammatic genera: Also feminine botanical genera species epithet can end with -um, the examples are: Arisaema triphyllum, Alocasia scalprum, Aglaonema commutatum, Syngonium auritum... But indeed, I have never heard another construction like Amorphophallus titanum. I always wondered why Alocasia macrorrhizos is a proper name, the epithet is of Greek origin, and I don't know why it is named so. The suffix -os is masculine in Greek, and Alocasia is feminine. And what do you think about the name Synandrospadix vermitoxicus? I can't find anywhere what is the gender of the word "spadix". Isn't it feminine? There is also one important note, many people erroneously take genera ending with -is as masculine, but it is feminine, Ariopsis peltata or in other families Iris pumila, Clematis lanuginosa etc. Also the genera ending with -as are feminine: Anubias gigantea, Zamioculcas zamiifolia, Cycas revoluta. But... the pine tree, Pinus seems to be a masculine word, and we have Pinus sylvestris, P. excelsa, P. nigra, while some other species of pine end usually with -us: like Pinus strobus. Strange things... Marek HTML +More ----- Original Message ----- From: Eduardo Gomes Goncalves To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:34 PM Subject: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum Dear fellows, I have a silly (but important) question for you. As far as I know, Amophophallus is a masculine word, am I correct? In Latin, except for the name of traditional trees (Malus, Pyrus, etc), all names ended in -us are male names. So it is correct to say that all adjective epithets in Amorphophallus species end with -us (A. gomboczianus, A. hirsutus, A lunatus, A. glaucophyllus, etc). Why Amophophallus titanum is not A. titanus? Other species with a similar epithet (I don't remember none in plant kingdom, but I know Dorcus titanus - a beetle)... Wilbert, do you have any reason for this? Very best wishes, Eduardo. INHOTIM Dr. EDUARDO G. GON�ALVES Curador Bot�nico Jardim Bot�nico Rua B, 20 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604.8618 Ramal 380 Rua Ant�nio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcion�rios 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil +55 31 3223.8224 Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente. class=webkit-block-placeholder> _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l No virus found in the message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3423 - Release Date: 02/04/11 ------=_NextPart_000_00A7_01CBC5B9.58959210-- --==============17477806683325145=

From: "E.Vincent Morano" <ironious2 at yahoo.com> on 2011.02.06 at 07:06:19(21857) Well we know what a phallus is right? There just isnt any other way of saying it. I refuse to participate in the recession, Erin Vincent Morano HTML +More --- On Thu, 2/3/11, Eduardo Gomes Goncalves wrote: From: Eduardo Gomes Goncalves Subject: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum To: "Discussion of aroids" Date: Thursday, February 3, 2011, 7:34 AM Dear fellows, I have a silly (but important) question for you. As far as I know, Amophophallus is a masculine word, am I correct? In Latin, except for the name of traditional trees (Malus, Pyrus, etc), all names ended in -us are male names. So it is correct to say that all adjective epithets in Amorphophallus species end with -us (A. gomboczianus, A. hirsutus, A lunatus, A. glaucophyllus, etc). Why Amophophallus titanum is not A. titanus? Other species with a similar epithet (I don't remember none in plant kingdom, but I know Dorcus titanus - a beetle)... Wilbert, do you have any reason for this? Very best wishes, Eduardo. INHOTIM Dr. EDUARDO G. GON�ALVES Curador Bot�nico Jardim Bot�nico Rua B, 20 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604..8618 Ramal 380 Rua Ant�nio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcion�rios 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil +55 31 3223.8224 Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente. class="yiv621434webkit-block-placeholder"> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l --0-1869199183-1296975979=:56321-- --==============c71508667408408147=

From: "John" <criswick at spiceisle.com> on 2011.02.06 at 19:32:16(21868) Curiously, the slang word “bite” in French, for “penis”, is feminine. However, this is not the point. A Latin scholar is required to tell us why some epithets end in us and others in um. I have already asked one. HTML +More John. From: aroid-l-bounces@www.gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@www.gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of E.Vincent Morano Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 3:06 AM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum Well we know what a phallus is right? There just isnt any other way of saying it. I refuse to participate in the recession, Erin Vincent Morano --- On Thu, 2/3/11, Eduardo Gomes Goncalves wrote: From: Eduardo Gomes Goncalves Subject: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum To: "Discussion of aroids" Date: Thursday, February 3, 2011, 7:34 AM Dear fellows, I have a silly (but important) question for you. As far as I know, Amophophallus is a masculine word, am I correct? In Latin, except for the name of traditional trees (Malus, Pyrus, etc), all names ended in -us are male names. So it is correct to say that all adjective epithets in Amorphophallus species end with -us (A. gomboczianus, A. hirsutus, A lunatus, A. glaucophyllus, etc). Why Amophophallus titanum is not A. titanus? Other species with a similar epithet (I don't remember none in plant kingdom, but I know Dorcus titanus - a beetle)... Wilbert, do you have any reason for this? Very best wishes, Eduardo. INHOTIM Dr. EDUARDO G. GON�ALVES Curador Bot�nico Jardim Bot�nico Rua B, 20 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604.8618 Ramal 380 Rua Ant�nio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcion�rios 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil +55 31 3223.8224 Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list ymailto="mailto:Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com">Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l ------=_NextPart_000_0105_01CBC613.0AC87A20-- --==============75315470589376609=

From: Eduardo Gomes Goncalves <eduardo.goncalves at inhotim.org.br> on 2011.02.06 at 23:11:18(21872) Dear Pete, I will take a look on it tomorrow morning. Thanks a lot... I knew there was good reason, mainly because Dan worked on it. Very best wishes, Eduardo. HTML +More Em 06/02/2011, �s 00:49, Peter Boyce escreveu: Dear Eduardo, I am sure than Dan dealt with this in his 1987 Aroideana [10(3): 15-25] paper, but I don't have it to hand at the moment since I'm in Pinang. Peter On 3 February 2011 23:34, Eduardo Gomes Goncalves wrote: > > Dear fellows, > I have a silly (but important) question for you. As far as I know, Amophophallus is a masculine word, am I correct? > In Latin, except for the name of traditional trees (Malus, Pyrus, etc), all names ended in -us are male names. So it is correct to say that all adjective epithets in Amorphophallus species end with -us (A. gomboczianus, A. hirsutus, A lunatus, A. glaucophyllus, etc). > Why Amophophallus titanum is not A. titanus? Other species with a similar epithet (I don't remember none in plant kingdom, but I know Dorcus titanus - a beetle)... Wilbert, do you have any reason for this? > Very best wishes, > Eduardo. > > > INHOTIM > Dr. EDUARDO G. GON�ALVES > > Curador Bot�nico > > Jardim Bot�nico > > Rua B, 20 > 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil > +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604.8618 Ramal 380 > > Rua Ant�nio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcion�rios > 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil > +55 31 3223.8224 > > Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-L mailing list > Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l INHOTIM Dr. EDUARDO G. GON�ALVES Curador Bot�nico Jardim Bot�nico Rua B, 20 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604.8618 Ramal 380 Rua Ant�nio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcion�rios 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil +55 31 3223.8224 Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente. --Apple-Mail-2-899098569-- --==============926370446159036007=

From: Alistair Hay <ajmhay at hotmail.com> on 2011.02.06 at 23:15:32(21873) I think the point is that not all speces epithets are adjectival, so they do not necessarily have to agree with the gender of the genus. For example in Alocasia scalprum the epithet is a noun which happens to be neuter: the knife alocasia. An adjectival latin epithet in Alocasia would indeed be feminine: Alocasia indica: the indian Alocasia. Aglaonema is a neuter genus, as are Cyrtosperma, Arisaema and Syngonium. So its Aglaonema rotundum, Cyrtosperma cuspidispathum, Arisaema concinnum and Syngonium chiapense when the epithet is adjectival. In Amorphophallus titanum, the epithet is not an adjective. I am uncertain but fairly sure it is the genitive plural, meaning "of the titans" or something like that. It does not mean the adjective "titanic". Alistair HTML +More On 05/02/2011, at 10:50 PM, "Marek Argent" wrote: Dear Eduardo, A good point. The suffix -um is neutral and it fits to all grammatic genera: Also feminine botanical genera species epithet can end with -um, the examples are: Arisaema triphyllum, Alocasia scalprum, Aglaonema commutatum, Syngonium auritum... But indeed, I have never heard another construction like Amorphophallus titanum. I always wondered why Alocasia macrorrhizos is a proper name, the epithet is of Greek origin, and I don't know why it is named so. The suffix -os is masculine in Greek, and Alocasia is feminine. And what do you think about the name Synandrospadix vermitoxicus? I can't find anywhere what is the gender of the word "spadix". Isn't it feminine? There is also one important note, many people erroneously take genera ending with -is as masculine, but it is feminine, Ariopsis peltata or in other families Iris pumila, Clematis lanuginosa etc. Also the genera ending with -as are feminine: Anubias gigantea, Zamioculcas zamiifolia, Cycas revoluta. But... the pine tree, Pinus seems to be a masculine word, and we have Pinus sylvestris, P. excelsa, P. nigra, while some other species of pine end usually with -us: like Pinus strobus. Strange things... Marek ----- Original Message ----- From: Eduardo Gomes Goncalves To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:34 PM Subject: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum Dear fellows, I have a silly (but important) question for you. As far as I know, Amophophallus is a masculine word, am I correct? In Latin, except for the name of traditional trees (Malus, Pyrus, etc), all names ended in -us are male names. So it is correct to say that all adjective epithets in Amorphophallus species end with -us (A. gomboczianus, A. hirsutus, A lunatus, A. glaucophyllus, etc). Why Amophophallus titanum is not A. titanus? Other species with a similar epithet (I don't remember none in plant kingdom, but I know Dorcus titanus - a beetle)... Wilbert, do you have any reason for this? Very best wishes, Eduardo. INHOTIM Dr. EDUARDO G. GONÇALVES Curador Botânico Jardim Botânico Rua B, 20 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604.8618 Ramal 380 Rua Antônio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcionários 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil +55 31 3223.8224 Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l No virus found in the message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3423 - Release Date: 02/04/11 _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l --Apple-Mail-7-899359831-- --==============14750499698688089=

From: Eduardo Gomes Goncalves <eduardo.goncalves at inhotim.org.br> on 2011.02.07 at 15:12:50(21884) Dear Alistair You are absolutely correct. I have re-checked this morning and "titanum" is the genitive plural of "titan" so it means exactly "of the titans". Since it came from greek, its declension is anomalous. Many thanks for your help. Very best wishes, Eduardo. HTML +More Em 06/02/2011, �s 21:15, Alistair Hay escreveu: I think the point is that not all speces epithets are adjectival, so they do not necessarily have to agree with the gender of the genus. For example in Alocasia scalprum the epithet is a noun which happens to be neuter: the knife alocasia. An adjectival latin epithet in Alocasia would indeed be feminine: Alocasia indica: the indian Alocasia. Aglaonema is a neuter genus, as are Cyrtosperma, Arisaema and Syngonium. So its Aglaonema rotundum, Cyrtosperma cuspidispathum, Arisaema concinnum and Syngonium chiapense when the epithet is adjectival. In Amorphophallus titanum, the epithet is not an adjective. I am uncertain but fairly sure it is the genitive plural, meaning "of the titans" or something like that. It does not mean the adjective "titanic". Alistair On 05/02/2011, at 10:50 PM, "Marek Argent" wrote: Dear Eduardo, A good point. The suffix -um is neutral and it fits to all grammatic genera: Also feminine botanical genera species epithet can end with -um, the examples are: Arisaema triphyllum, Alocasia scalprum, Aglaonema commutatum, Syngonium auritum... But indeed, I have never heard another construction like Amorphophallus titanum. I always wondered why Alocasia macrorrhizos is a proper name, the epithet is of Greek origin, and I don't know why it is named so. The suffix -os is masculine in Greek, and Alocasia is feminine. And what do you think about the name Synandrospadix vermitoxicus? I can't find anywhere what is the gender of the word "spadix". Isn't it feminine? There is also one important note, many people erroneously take genera ending with -is as masculine, but it is feminine, Ariopsis peltata or in other families Iris pumila, Clematis lanuginosa etc. Also the genera ending with -as are feminine: Anubias gigantea, Zamioculcas zamiifolia, Cycas revoluta. But... the pine tree, Pinus seems to be a masculine word, and we have Pinus sylvestris, P. excelsa, P. nigra, while some other species of pine end usually with -us: like Pinus strobus. Strange things... Marek ----- Original Message ----- From: Eduardo Gomes Goncalves To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:34 PM Subject: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum Dear fellows, I have a silly (but important) question for you. As far as I know, Amophophallus is a masculine word, am I correct? In Latin, except for the name of traditional trees (Malus, Pyrus, etc), all names ended in -us are male names. So it is correct to say that all adjective epithets in Amorphophallus species end with -us (A. gomboczianus, A. hirsutus, A lunatus, A. glaucophyllus, etc). Why Amophophallus titanum is not A. titanus? Other species with a similar epithet (I don't remember none in plant kingdom, but I know Dorcus titanus - a beetle)... Wilbert, do you have any reason for this? Very best wishes, Eduardo. INHOTIM Dr. EDUARDO G. GON�ALVES Curador Bot�nico Jardim Bot�nico Rua B, 20 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604.8618 Ramal 380 Rua Ant�nio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcion�rios 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil +55 31 3223.8224 Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l No virus found in the message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3423 - Release Date: 02/04/11 _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l INHOTIM Dr. EDUARDO G. GON�ALVES Curador Bot�nico Jardim Bot�nico Rua B, 20 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604.8618 Ramal 380 Rua Ant�nio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcion�rios 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil +55 31 3223.8224 Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente. --Apple-Mail-2-956790872-- --==============g17312544682504576=

From: Hannon <othonna at gmail.com> on 2011.02.08 at 14:24:26(21893) Dear Eduardo, Thank you for this inquiry, it is good to know these things. Alistair, So would we have Alocasia scalprifolia for an adjectival epithet then? Regarding the example of Pinus, I believe all tree genera are regarded as feminine, no matter their origin. How lines are drawn between trees and non-trees I do not know. Regards, Dylan Hannon HTML +More On 7 February 2011 07:12, Eduardo Gomes Goncalves wrote: Dear Alistair You are absolutely correct. I have re-checked this morning and "titanum" is the genitive plural of "titan" so it means exactly "of the titans". Since it came from greek, its declension is anomalous. Many thanks for your help. Very best wishes, Eduardo. Em 06/02/2011, �s 21:15, Alistair Hay escreveu: I think the point is that not all speces epithets are adjectival, so they do not necessarily have to agree with the gender of the genus. For example in Alocasia scalprum the epithet is a noun which happens to be neuter: the knife alocasia. An adjectival latin epithet in Alocasia would indeed be feminine: Alocasia indica: the indian Alocasia.. Aglaonema is a neuter genus, as are Cyrtosperma, Arisaema and Syngonium. So its Aglaonema rotundum, Cyrtosperma cuspidispathum, Arisaema concinnum and Syngonium chiapense when the epithet is adjectival. In Amorphophallus titanum, the epithet is not an adjective. I am uncertain but fairly sure it is the genitive plural, meaning "of the titans" or something like that. It does not mean the adjective "titanic". Alistair On 05/02/2011, at 10:50 PM, "Marek Argent" wrote: Dear Eduardo, A good point. The suffix -um is neutral and it fits to all grammatic genera: Also feminine botanical genera species epithet can end with -um, the examples are: Arisaema triphyllum, Alocasia scalprum, Aglaonema commutatum, Syngonium auritum... But indeed, I have never heard another construction like Amorphophallus titanum. I always wondered why Alocasia macrorrhizos is a proper name, the epithet is of Greek origin, and I don't know why it is named so. The suffix -os is masculine in Greek, and Alocasia is feminine. And what do you think about the name Synandrospadix vermitoxicus? I can't find anywhere what is the gender of the word "spadix". Isn't it feminine? There is also one important note, many people erroneously take genera ending with -is as masculine, but it is feminine, Ariopsis peltata or in other families Iris pumila, Clematis lanuginosa etc. Also the genera ending with -as are feminine: Anubias gigantea, Zamioculcas zamiifolia, Cycas revoluta. But... the pine tree, Pinus seems to be a masculine word, and we have Pinus sylvestris, P. excelsa, P. nigra, while some other species of pine end usually with -us: like Pinus strobus. Strange things... Marek ----- Original Message ----- From: Eduardo Gomes Goncalves To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:34 PM Subject: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum Dear fellows, I have a silly (but important) question for you. As far as I know, Amophophallus is a masculine word, am I correct? In Latin, except for the name of traditional trees (Malus, Pyrus, etc), all names ended in -us are male names. So it is correct to say that all adjective epithets in Amorphophallus species end with -us (A. gomboczianus, A. hirsutus, A lunatus, A. glaucophyllus, etc). Why Amophophallus titanum is not A. titanus? Other species with a similar epithet (I don't remember none in plant kingdom, but I know Dorcus titanus - a beetle)... Wilbert, do you have any reason for this? Very best wishes, Eduardo. INHOTIM Dr. EDUARDO G. GON�ALVES Curador Bot�nico Jardim Bot�nico Rua B, 20 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604.8618 Ramal 380 Rua Ant�nio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcion�rios 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil +55 31 3223.8224 Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente.. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l No virus found in the message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3423 - Release Date: 02/04/11 _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l INHOTIM Dr. EDUARDO G. GON�ALVES Curador Bot�nico Jardim Bot�nico Rua B, 20 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604.8618 Ramal 380 Rua Ant�nio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcion�rios 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil +55 31 3223.8224 Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -- < < < < < <

From: Eduardo Gomes Goncalves <eduardo.goncalves at inhotim.org.br> on 2011.02.09 at 11:13:58(21904) Dear Dylan, All "tradicional" trees are female in Latin. The question is that "tradicional" are trees defined as so. Syagrus is a female word because it is considered a tree but probably Cicerus never mentioned it in his classical texts. Moreover, we are not exactly sure that all palms are trees (mainly in Syagrus, with plants of some species reaching no more than 30 cm tall). The borderline is quite fuzzy and tricky. Very best wishes, Eduardo. HTML +More Em 08/02/2011, �s 12:24, Hannon escreveu: Dear Eduardo, Thank you for this inquiry, it is good to know these things. Alistair, So would we have Alocasia scalprifolia for an adjectival epithet then? Regarding the example of Pinus, I believe all tree genera are regarded as feminine, no matter their origin. How lines are drawn between trees and non-trees I do not know. Regards, Dylan Hannon On 7 February 2011 07:12, Eduardo Gomes Goncalves wrote: Dear Alistair You are absolutely correct. I have re-checked this morning and "titanum" is the genitive plural of "titan" so it means exactly "of the titans". Since it came from greek, its declension is anomalous. Many thanks for your help. Very best wishes, Eduardo. Em 06/02/2011, �s 21:15, Alistair Hay escreveu: I think the point is that not all speces epithets are adjectival, so they do not necessarily have to agree with the gender of the genus. For example in Alocasia scalprum the epithet is a noun which happens to be neuter: the knife alocasia. An adjectival latin epithet in Alocasia would indeed be feminine: Alocasia indica: the indian Alocasia. Aglaonema is a neuter genus, as are Cyrtosperma, Arisaema and Syngonium. So its Aglaonema rotundum, Cyrtosperma cuspidispathum, Arisaema concinnum and Syngonium chiapense when the epithet is adjectival. In Amorphophallus titanum, the epithet is not an adjective. I am uncertain but fairly sure it is the genitive plural, meaning "of the titans" or something like that. It does not mean the adjective "titanic". Alistair On 05/02/2011, at 10:50 PM, "Marek Argent" wrote: Dear Eduardo, A good point. The suffix -um is neutral and it fits to all grammatic genera: Also feminine botanical genera species epithet can end with -um, the examples are: Arisaema triphyllum, Alocasia scalprum, Aglaonema commutatum, Syngonium auritum... But indeed, I have never heard another construction like Amorphophallus titanum. I always wondered why Alocasia macrorrhizos is a proper name, the epithet is of Greek origin, and I don't know why it is named so. The suffix -os is masculine in Greek, and Alocasia is feminine. And what do you think about the name Synandrospadix vermitoxicus? I can't find anywhere what is the gender of the word "spadix". Isn't it feminine? There is also one important note, many people erroneously take genera ending with -is as masculine, but it is feminine, Ariopsis peltata or in other families Iris pumila, Clematis lanuginosa etc. Also the genera ending with -as are feminine: Anubias gigantea, Zamioculcas zamiifolia, Cycas revoluta. But... the pine tree, Pinus seems to be a masculine word, and we have Pinus sylvestris, P. excelsa, P. nigra, while some other species of pine end usually with -us: like Pinus strobus. Strange things... Marek ----- Original Message ----- From: Eduardo Gomes Goncalves To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:34 PM Subject: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum Dear fellows, I have a silly (but important) question for you. As far as I know, Amophophallus is a masculine word, am I correct? In Latin, except for the name of traditional trees (Malus, Pyrus, etc), all names ended in -us are male names. So it is correct to say that all adjective epithets in Amorphophallus species end with -us (A. gomboczianus, A. hirsutus, A lunatus, A. glaucophyllus, etc). Why Amophophallus titanum is not A. titanus? Other species with a similar epithet (I don't remember none in plant kingdom, but I know Dorcus titanus - a beetle)... Wilbert, do you have any reason for this? Very best wishes, Eduardo. INHOTIM Dr. EDUARDO G. GON�ALVES Curador Bot�nico Jardim Bot�nico Rua B, 20 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604.8618 Ramal 380 Rua Ant�nio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcion�rios 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil +55 31 3223.8224 Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l No virus found in the message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3423 - Release Date: 02/04/11 _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l INHOTIM Dr. EDUARDO G. GON�ALVES Curador Bot�nico Jardim Bot�nico Rua B, 20 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604.8618 Ramal 380 Rua Ant�nio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcion�rios 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil +55 31 3223.8224 Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -- < < < < < <

From: Alistair Hay <ajmhay at hotmail.com> on 2011.02.10 at 01:13:36(21923) The gender of a genus is unrelated to the habit of the plants it contains, though I think it is true to say that a majority of generic names are feminine. Calophyllum is a neuter genus of trees, and Elaeocarpus is a masculine one, for example. A On 09/02/2011, at 10:13 PM, Eduardo Gomes Goncalves wrote: HTML +More Dear Dylan, All "tradicional" trees are female in Latin. The question is that "tradicional" are trees defined as so. Syagrus is a female word because it is considered a tree but probably Cicerus never mentioned it in his classical texts. Moreover, we are not exactly sure that all palms are trees (mainly in Syagrus, with plants of some species reaching no more than 30 cm tall). The borderline is quite fuzzy and tricky. Very best wishes, Eduardo. Em 08/02/2011, � s 12:24, Hannon escreveu: Dear Eduardo, Thank you for this inquiry, it is good to know these things. Alistair, So would we have Alocasia scalprifolia for an adjectival epithet then? Regarding the example of Pinus, I believe all tree genera are regarded as feminine, no matter their origin. How lines are drawn between trees and non-trees I do not know. Regards, Dylan Hannon On 7 February 2011 07:12, Eduardo Gomes Goncalves wrote: Dear Alistair You are absolutely correct. I have re-checked this morning and "titanum" is the genitive plural of "titan" so it means exactly "of the titans". Since it came from greek, its declension is anomalous. Many thanks for your help. Very best wishes, Eduardo. Em 06/02/2011, � s 21:15, Alistair Hay escreveu: I think the point is that not all speces epithets are adjectival, so they do not necessarily have to agree with the gender of the genus. For example in Alocasia scalprum the epithet is a noun which happens to be neuter: the knife alocasia. An adjectival latin epithet in Alocasia would indeed be feminine: Alocasia indica: the indian Alocasia. Aglaonema is a neuter genus, as are Cyrtosperma, Arisaema and Syngonium. So its Aglaonema rotundum, Cyrtosperma cuspidispathum, Arisaema concinnum and Syngonium chiapense when the epithet is adjectival. In Amorphophallus titanum, the epithet is not an adjective. I am uncertain but fairly sure it is the genitive plural, meaning "of the titans" or something like that. It does not mean the adjective "titanic". Alistair On 05/02/2011, at 10:50 PM, "Marek Argent" wrote: Dear Eduardo, A good point. The suffix -um is neutral and it fits to all grammatic genera: Also feminine botanical genera species epithet can end with -um, the examples are: Arisaema triphyllum, Alocasia scalprum, Aglaonema commutatum, Syngonium auritum... But indeed, I have never heard another construction like Amorphophallus titanum. I always wondered why Alocasia macrorrhizos is a proper name, the epithet is of Greek origin, and I don't know why it is named so. The suffix -os is masculine in Greek, and Alocasia is feminine. And what do you think about the name Synandrospadix vermitoxicus? I can't find anywhere what is the gender of the word "spadix". Isn't it feminine? There is also one important note, many people erroneously take genera ending with -is as masculine, but it is feminine, Ariopsis peltata or in other families Iris pumila, Clematis lanuginosa etc. Also the genera ending with -as are feminine: Anubias gigantea, Zamioculcas zamiifolia, Cycas revoluta. But... the pine tree, Pinus seems to be a masculine word, and we have Pinus sylvestris, P. excelsa, P. nigra, while some other species of pine end usually with -us: like Pinus strobus. Strange things... Marek ----- Original Message ----- From: Eduardo Gomes Goncalves To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:34 PM Subject: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum Dear fellows, I have a silly (but important) question for you. As far as I know, Amophophallus is a masculine word, am I correct? In Latin, except for the name of traditional trees (Malus, Pyrus, etc), all names ended in -us are male names. So it is correct to say that all adjective epithets in Amorphophallus species end with -us (A. gomboczianus, A. hirsutus, A lunatus, A. glaucophyllus, etc). Why Amophophallus titanum is not A. titanus? Other species with a similar epithet (I don't remember none in plant kingdom, but I know Dorcus titanus - a beetle)... Wilbert, do you have any reason for this? Very best wishes, Eduardo. INHOTIM Dr. EDUARDO G. GONÇALVES Curador Botânico Jardim Botânico Rua B, 20 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604.8618 Ramal 380 Rua Antônio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcionários 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil +55 31 3223.8224 Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l No virus found in the message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3423 - Release Date: 02/04/11 _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l INHOTIM Dr. EDUARDO G. GONÇALVES Curador Botânico Jardim Botânico Rua B, 20 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604.8618 Ramal 380 Rua Antônio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcionários 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil +55 31 3223.8224 Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -- < < < < < <

From: "Marek Argent" <abri1973 at wp.pl> on 2011.02.12 at 15:54:55(21939)  One more thing: Quercus, Fagus, Fraxinus, Malus, Pyrus, Prunus, Pinus, Alnus, Eucalyptus - all they end with -us suggesting a masculine gender while most of their specific epithets are feminine. Can a Latin feminine word end with -us? Marek HTML +More ----- Original Message ----- From: Alistair Hay To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:13 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum The gender of a genus is unrelated to the habit of the plants it contains, though I think it is true to say that a majority of generic names are feminine. Calophyllum is a neuter genus of trees, and Elaeocarpus is a masculine one, for example. A On 09/02/2011, at 10:13 PM, Eduardo Gomes Goncalves wrote: Dear Dylan, All "tradicional" trees are female in Latin. The question is that "tradicional" are trees defined as so. Syagrus is a female word because it is considered a tree but probably Cicerus never mentioned it in his classical texts. Moreover, we are not exactly sure that all palms are trees (mainly in Syagrus, with plants of some species reaching no more than 30 cm tall). The borderline is quite fuzzy and tricky. Very best wishes, Eduardo. Em 08/02/2011, � s 12:24, Hannon escreveu: Dear Eduardo, Thank you for this inquiry, it is good to know these things. Alistair, So would we have Alocasia scalprifolia for an adjectival epithet then? Regarding the example of Pinus, I believe all tree genera are regarded as feminine, no matter their origin. How lines are drawn between trees and non-trees I do not know. Regards, Dylan Hannon On 7 February 2011 07:12, Eduardo Gomes Goncalves wrote: Dear Alistair You are absolutely correct. I have re-checked this morning and "titanum" is the genitive plural of "titan" so it means exactly "of the titans". Since it came from greek, its declension is anomalous. Many thanks for your help. Very best wishes, Eduardo. Em 06/02/2011, � s 21:15, Alistair Hay escreveu: I think the point is that not all speces epithets are adjectival, so they do not necessarily have to agree with the gender of the genus. For example in Alocasia scalprum the epithet is a noun which happens to be neuter: the knife alocasia. An adjectival latin epithet in Alocasia would indeed be feminine: Alocasia indica: the indian Alocasia. Aglaonema is a neuter genus, as are Cyrtosperma, Arisaema and Syngonium. So its Aglaonema rotundum, Cyrtosperma cuspidispathum, Arisaema concinnum and Syngonium chiapense when the epithet is adjectival. In Amorphophallus titanum, the epithet is not an adjective. I am uncertain but fairly sure it is the genitive plural, meaning "of the titans" or something like that. It does not mean the adjective "titanic". Alistair On 05/02/2011, at 10:50 PM, "Marek Argent" href="mailto:abri1973@wp.pl" target=_blankA href="mailto:abri1973@wp.pl"abri1973@wp.pl/A/A> wrote: Dear Eduardo, A good point. The suffix -um is neutral and it fits to all grammatic genera: Also feminine botanical genera species epithet can end with -um, the examples are: Arisaema triphyllum, Alocasia scalprum, Aglaonema commutatum, Syngonium auritum... But indeed, I have never heard another construction like Amorphophallus titanum. I always wondered why Alocasia macrorrhizos is a proper name, the epithet is of Greek origin, and I don't know why it is named so. The suffix -os is masculine in Greek, and Alocasia is feminine. And what do you think about the name Synandrospadix vermitoxicus? I can't find anywhere what is the gender of the word "spadix". Isn't it feminine? There is also one important note, many people erroneously take genera ending with -is as masculine, but it is feminine, Ariopsis peltata or in other families Iris pumila, Clematis lanuginosa etc. Also the genera ending with -as are feminine: Anubias gigantea, Zamioculcas zamiifolia, Cycas revoluta. But... the pine tree, Pinus seems to be a masculine word, and we have Pinus sylvestris, P. excelsa, P. nigra, while some other species of pine end usually with -us: like Pinus strobus. Strange things... Marek ----- Original Message ----- From: Eduardo Gomes Goncalves To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:34 PM Subject: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum Dear fellows, I have a silly (but important) question for you. As far as I know, Amophophallus is a masculine word, am I correct? In Latin, except for the name of traditional trees (Malus, Pyrus, etc), all names ended in -us are male names. So it is correct to say that all adjective epithets in Amorphophallus species end with -us (A. gomboczianus, A. hirsutus, A lunatus, A. glaucophyllus, etc). Why Amophophallus titanum is not A. titanus? Other species with a similar epithet (I don't remember none in plant kingdom, but I know Dorcus titanus - a beetle)... Wilbert, do you have any reason for this? Very best wishes, Eduardo. INHOTIM Dr. EDUARDO G. GONÇALVES Curador Botânico Jardim Botânico Rua B, 20 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604.8618 Ramal 380 Rua Antônio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcionários 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil +55 31 3223.8224 Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l No virus found in the message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3423 - Release Date: 02/04/11 _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l INHOTIM Dr. EDUARDO G. GONÇALVES Curador Botânico Jardim Botânico Rua B, 20 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604.8618 Ramal 380 Rua Antônio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcionários 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil +55 31 3223.8224 Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list href="mailto:Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com">Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -- < < < < < <

From: Alex Popovkin <popovkin at gmail.com> on 2011.02.12 at 18:43:24(21941) Marek asked: Can a Latin feminine word end with -us? Some of the feminine nouns of the 3rd declension: e.g., palus 'marsh, bog, swamp', virtus 'virtue'. Alex Popovkin, Bahia, Brazil -12.01 -38.02 HTML +More Over 8,150 images of local flora (and fauna): http://bit.ly/9d0YRA http://popovkin.wordpress.com/ http://www.google.com/profiles/popovkin twitter @popovkin "Nomina si nescis, perit et cognitio rerum" (Carl Linnaeus, Philosophia Botanica) On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 12:54 PM, Marek Argent wrote: One more thing: Quercus, Fagus, Fraxinus, Malus, Pyrus, Prunus, Pinus, Alnus, Eucalyptus - all they end with -us suggesting a masculine gender while most of their specific epithets are feminine. Can a Latin feminine word end with -us? Marek ----- Original Message ----- From: Alistair Hay To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:13 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum The gender of a genus is unrelated to the habit of the plants it contains, though I think it is true to say that a majority of generic names are feminine. Calophyllum is a neuter genus of trees, and Elaeocarpus is a masculine one, for example. A On 09/02/2011, at 10:13 PM, Eduardo Gomes Goncalves wrote: Dear Dylan, All "tradicional" trees are female in Latin. The question is that "tradicional" are trees defined as so. Syagrus is a female word because it is considered a tree but probably Cicerus never mentioned it in his classical texts. Moreover, we are not exactly sure that all palms are trees (mainly in Syagrus, with plants of some species reaching no more than 30 cm tall). The borderline is quite fuzzy and tricky. Very best wishes, Eduardo. Em 08/02/2011, � s 12:24, Hannon escreveu: Dear Eduardo, Thank you for this inquiry, it is good to know these things. Alistair, So would we have Alocasia scalprifolia for an adjectival epithet then? Regarding the example of Pinus, I believe all tree genera are regarded as feminine, no matter their origin. How lines are drawn between trees and non-trees I do not know. Regards, Dylan Hannon On 7 February 2011 07:12, Eduardo Gomes Goncalves wrote: Dear Alistair You are absolutely correct. I have re-checked this morning and "titanum" is the genitive plural of "titan" so it means exactly "of the titans". Since it came from greek, its declension is anomalous. Many thanks for your help. Very best wishes, Eduardo. Em 06/02/2011, � s 21:15, Alistair Hay escreveu: I think the point is that not all speces epithets are adjectival, so they do not necessarily have to agree with the gender of the genus. For example in Alocasia scalprum the epithet is a noun which happens to be neuter: the knife alocasia. An adjectival latin epithet in Alocasia would indeed be feminine: Alocasia indica: the indian Alocasia. Aglaonema is a neuter genus, as are Cyrtosperma, Arisaema and Syngonium. So its Aglaonema rotundum, Cyrtosperma cuspidispathum, Arisaema concinnum and Syngonium chiapense when the epithet is adjectival. In Amorphophallus titanum, the epithet is not an adjective. I am uncertain but fairly sure it is the genitive plural, meaning "of the titans" or something like that. It does not mean the adjective "titanic". Alistair On 05/02/2011, at 10:50 PM, "Marek Argent" wrote: Dear Eduardo, A good point. The suffix -um is neutral and it fits to all grammatic genera: Also feminine botanical genera species epithet can end with -um, the examples are: Arisaema triphyllum, Alocasia scalprum, Aglaonema commutatum, Syngonium auritum... But indeed, I have never heard another construction like Amorphophallus titanum. I always wondered why Alocasia macrorrhizos is a proper name, the epithet is of Greek origin, and I don't know why it is named so. The suffix -os is masculine in Greek, and Alocasia is feminine. And what do you think about the name Synandrospadix vermitoxicus? I can't find anywhere what is the gender of the word "spadix". Isn't it feminine? There is also one important note, many people erroneously take genera ending with -is as masculine, but it is feminine, Ariopsis peltata or in other families Iris pumila, Clematis lanuginosa etc. Also the genera ending with -as are feminine: Anubias gigantea, Zamioculcas zamiifolia, Cycas revoluta. But... the pine tree, Pinus seems to be a masculine word, and we have Pinus sylvestris, P. excelsa, P. nigra, while some other species of pine end usually with -us: like Pinus strobus. Strange things... Marek ----- Original Message ----- From: Eduardo Gomes Goncalves To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:34 PM Subject: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum Dear fellows, I have a silly (but important) question for you. As far as I know, Amophophallus is a masculine word, am I correct? In Latin, except for the name of traditional trees (Malus, Pyrus, etc), all names ended in -us are male names. So it is correct to say that all adjective epithets in Amorphophallus species end with -us (A. gomboczianus, A. hirsutus, A lunatus, A. glaucophyllus, etc). Why Amophophallus titanum is not A. titanus? Other species with a similar epithet (I don't remember none in plant kingdom, but I know Dorcus titanus - a beetle)... Wilbert, do you have any reason for this? Very best wishes, Eduardo. INHOTIM Dr. EDUARDO G. GONÇALVES Curador Botânico Jardim Botânico Rua B, 20 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604.8618 Ramal 380 Rua Antônio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcionários 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil +55 31 3223.8224 Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l No virus found in the message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3423 - Release Date: 02/04/11 _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l INHOTIM Dr. EDUARDO G. GONÇALVES Curador Botânico Jardim Botânico Rua B, 20 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 Ramal Fixo 107 +55 31 9604.8618 Ramal 380 Rua Antônio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcionários 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil +55 31 3223.8224 Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -- < < < < < <

From: Alistair Hay <ajmhay at hotmail.com> on 2011.02.12 at 21:31:49(21947) If only Dan Nicolson were around to answer this :) On my *limited* knowledge, it is complicated by that fact that, although we call these "latin" names, they are really "botanical latin" which is a kind of bastardized multicultural fruit salad, and one generally cannot tell the gender of a generic name just by looking at it, unless you have specialist knowledge of the "language". As a very very crude generalization, generic names are almost always nouns, usually feminine and tend to be from (or moulded into) greek, while species epithets are generally from latin and either nouns or adjectives.  There are many many exceptions though. Some are drawn from mediaeval latinized names themselves drawn from other languages besides greek or latin. Some are drawn from words in modern languages which may or may not have any gender themselves: e.g. the palm Licuala. What happens as a rule to the gender as words are transposed from various languages into botanical latin is a bit beyond me, I'm afraid. Dan had a paper on it in Taxon in 1994 which I don't have.  Here's a few examples of things which I have found confusing at one time or another! Genus names which commemorate people are nearly always feminine regardless of the gender of the person: Hence Bognera, but Hottarum is neuter because it is a portmanteau of Hotta and the neuter Arum. Some generic names which "look" feminine are neuter - as for example Aglaonema and Cyrtosperma, mentioned before. Neuter by the way is a definite linguistic gender: it is not "neutral" in the sense of being able to take any gender ending of adjective. A neuter noun must have an adjective in neuter form: so Aglaonema commutatum. And as you have pointed out, some generic names which "look" latin masculine, like Prunus, are feminine. Some adjectival species epithets are not latin: macrorrhizos is an example. It is greek, and both the feminine and masculine form of this adjective are spelled the same way: Hence Alocasia macrorrhizos. The neuter ending is -on, and this plant started out its nomenclatural life as Arum macrorrhizon, because Arum is neuter. When it was first transferred to Alocasia, the epithet was changed to the feminine-looking and widely used but grammatically incorrect "macrorrhiza", later corrected by Dan. Some species epithets which look like adjectives are not: e.g. those ending in -icola are nouns (meaning  inhabitant of ....  so monticola = inhabitant of mountains; vulcanicola = inhabitant of volcanoes). So it is Alocasia (f) monticola, Calochortus (m) paludicola and Arum (n) rupicola, and the gender of the genus does not affect the ending of the epithet.  Another case which it is easy to trip up on is when plant species are named for people. Wilbert's Typhonium is Typhonium wilbertii (the genitive singular of the latinized masculine proper noun Wilbertius). If Wilbert had been a woman, Wilbertha, it would have been the genitive singular of the latinized feminine proper noun Wilbertia, hence Typhonium wilbertiae. But if the plant had been intended to be called, adjectivally, the Wilbertian Typhonium, it would have had the neuter ending Typhonium wilbertianum because Typhonium is neuter, regardless of whether W was Wilbert or Wilbertha! HTML +More From: abri1973@wp.pl To: aroid-l@www.gizmoworks.com Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 16:54:55 +0100 Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum One more thing: Quercus, Fagus, Fraxinus, Malus, Pyrus, Prunus, Pinus, Alnus, Eucalyptus - all they end with -us suggesting a masculine gender while most of their specific epithets are feminine. Can a Latin feminine word end with -us?   Marek     ----- Original Message ----- From: Alistair Hay To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:13 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum The gender of a genus is unrelated to the habit of the plants it contains, though I think it is true to say that a majority of generic names are feminine. Calophyllum is a neuter genus of trees, and Elaeocarpus is a masculine one, for example. A On 09/02/2011, at 10:13 PM, Eduardo Gomes Goncalves <eduardo.goncalves@inhotim.org.br> wrote: Dear Dylan, All "tradicional" trees are female in Latin. The question is that "tradicional" are trees defined as so. Syagrus is a female word because it is considered a tree but probably Cicerus never mentioned it in his classical texts. Moreover, we are not exactly sure that all palms are trees (mainly in Syagrus, with plants of some species reaching no more than 30 cm tall).  The borderline is quite fuzzy and tricky.  Very best wishes,  Eduardo.  Em 08/02/2011, �s 12:24, Hannon escreveu: Dear Eduardo, Thank you for this inquiry, it is good to know these things. Alistair, So would we have Alocasia scalprifolia for an adjectival epithet then? Regarding the example of Pinus, I believe all tree genera are regarded as feminine, no matter their origin. How lines are drawn between trees and non-trees I do not know. Regards, Dylan Hannon On 7 February 2011 07:12, Eduardo Gomes Goncalves <eduardo.goncalves@inhotim.org.br> wrote: Dear Alistair  You are absolutely correct. I have re-checked this morning and "titanum" is the genitive plural of "titan" so it means exactly "of the titans". Since it came from greek, its declension is anomalous.  Many thanks for your help.  Very best wishes, Eduardo.  Em 06/02/2011, �s 21:15, Alistair Hay escreveu: I think the point is that not all speces epithets are adjectival, so they do not necessarily have to agree with the gender of the genus. For example in Alocasia scalprum the epithet is a noun which happens to be neuter: the knife alocasia. An adjectival latin epithet in Alocasia would indeed be feminine:  Alocasia indica: the indian Alocasia. Aglaonema is a neuter genus, as are Cyrtosperma, Arisaema and Syngonium. So its Aglaonema rotundum, Cyrtosperma cuspidispathum, Arisaema concinnum and Syngonium chiapense when the epithet is adjectival. In Amorphophallus titanum,  the epithet is not an adjective. I am uncertain but fairly sure it is the genitive plural, meaning "of the titans" or something like that. It does not mean the adjective "titanic". Alistair On 05/02/2011, at 10:50 PM, "Marek Argent" <abri1973@wp.pl> wrote: Dear Eduardo,   A good point.   The suffix -um is neutral and it fits to all grammatic genera: Also feminine botanical genera species epithet can end with -um, the examples are: Arisaema triphyllum, Alocasia scalprum, Aglaonema commutatum, Syngonium auritum... But indeed, I have never heard another construction like Amorphophallus titanum.   I always wondered why Alocasia macrorrhizos is a proper name, the epithet is of Greek origin, and I don't know why it is named so. The suffix -os is masculine in Greek, and Alocasia is feminine. And what do you think about the name Synandrospadix vermitoxicus? I can't find anywhere what is the gender of the word "spadix". Isn't it feminine?   There is also one important note, many people erroneously take genera ending with -is as masculine, but it is feminine, Ariopsis peltata or in other families Iris pumila, Clematis lanuginosa etc.  Also the genera ending with -as are feminine: Anubias gigantea, Zamioculcas zamiifolia, Cycas revoluta. But... the pine tree, Pinus seems to be a masculine word, and we have Pinus sylvestris, P. excelsa, P. nigra, while some other species of pine end usually with -us: like Pinus strobus.   Strange things... Marek ----- Original Message ----- From: Eduardo Gomes Goncalves To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:34 PM Subject: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum Dear fellows,  I have a silly (but important) question for you. As far as I know, Amophophallus is a masculine word, am I correct? In Latin, except for the name of traditional trees (Malus, Pyrus, etc), all names ended in -us are male names. So it is correct to say that all adjective epithets in Amorphophallus species  end with -us (A. gomboczianus, A. hirsutus, A lunatus, A. glaucophyllus, etc).  Why Amophophallus titanum is not A. titanus? Other species with a similar epithet (I don't remember none in plant kingdom, but I know Dorcus titanus - a beetle)...  Wilbert, do you have any reason for this? Very best wishes, Eduardo.  INHOTIM  Dr. EDUARDO G. GON�ALVES Curador Bot�nico Jardim Bot�nico Rua B, 20  35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638  Ramal Fixo 107         +55 31 9604.8618  Ramal 380 Rua Ant�nio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcion�rios 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil  +55 31 3223.8224           Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente.   _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l No virus found in the message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3423 - Release Date: 02/04/11 _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l INHOTIM  Dr. EDUARDO G. GON�ALVES Curador Bot�nico Jardim Bot�nico Rua B, 20  35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638  Ramal Fixo 107         +55 31 9604.8618  Ramal 380 Rua Ant�nio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcion�rios 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil  +55 31 3223.8224           Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente.   _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l --  <*(((><      <*{{{><      <*ZZZ><     <*////><     <*lll><     <*CCC><    <">< _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l INHOTIM  Dr. EDUARDO G. GON�ALVES Curador Bot�nico Jardim Bot�nico Rua B, 20  35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638  Ramal Fixo 107         +55 31 9604.8618  Ramal 380 Rua Ant�nio de Albuquerque, 215 | Funcion�rios 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil  +55 31 3223.8224           Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente.   _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l No virus found in the message. 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