Invasive plants

From: "ron" <ronlene at bellsouth.net> on 2004.08.28 at 15:36:14(12075) To all of those who think it's OK to grow "just a few" invasive plants "at home", I live in Florida and volunteer with the Agriculture Extension Service here. I read lots of information about the damage that the imported invasive Genera of flora and fauna are causing to our natives. Most of these living things were imported with good intentions, to beautify our land, to protect from insect and animal predators, to improve our food supply, and lastly, to profit from in business. Most of these intentions worked fine for a while, but the long term effects are starting to become apparent now, AND it is to late to reverse much of it. I cannot go into the details of all of the individual species that are the villains, but I am sure you have read about most of them. Our country has thousands of natives that should make most of us happy. As Aroid lovers, there are hundreds of aroids that have passed the test of time for environmental safety. We should think very carefully before we try to import and plant any species that does not have a proven environmental safety record. It's always nice to have something that no one else has, but by owning it, you assume the responsibility of quarantining it until you are confident that it will not be invasive, because it may escape. I believe this testing should be left to the trusted professional grower. We all take great pride in our collection. Lets also take great pride in our environment! DON'T GROW INVASIVE PLANTS!! Ron Kessler +More [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Arthur, Brian, Sean MyersSent: Friday, August 27, 2004 8:16 PMTo: Discussion of aroidsSubject: Re: [Aroid-l] upcoming IAS show and sale Since when(or where) is it illegal to own pistia? It is still sold here in PA in all of the local nurseries and when i had water gardens i always had it..Sean MyersPatricia Frank wrote: Unfortunately it is now illegal to own a pistia, let alone show the plant at the show. I brought in one in the crystal award that goes with it and had it taken by our Plant Inspector. So there goes our fun. Alan Fernandez would not be pleased. Tricia>From: "Alan Galloway" >Reply-To: Alan Galloway ,Discussion of aroids >To: "aroid-l" >Subject: [Aroid-l] upcoming IAS show and sale >Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:12:32 -0400 > >Folks, > >I've been meaning to send this email for some time, but have just been too >busy. > >Was talking with an IAS member some weeks back and he mentioned that there >used to be a contest at the IAS show and sale where individuals would enter >their largest specimen of Pistia (water lettuce). He said some were huge. > >Would there be any interest in reviving this contest? Sounds like a lot of >fun, especially for kids. > >Alan > >_______________________________________________ >Aroid-l mailing list >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "danny wilson" <mudwasp_ at hotmail.com> on 2004.08.29 at 04:16:39(12079) when ever i grow something that is particularly invasive, monstly tuberous aroids, especially arisaema triphyllum and amorphophallus konjac, i make sure to grow them in pots and not let them go to seed. if i do want to put them in the ground, i just bury them in the pot. i have had first hand experience with extremely invasive plants. the most nasty in my town, samta cruz california, is Arum italicum. it crossed my entire neighborhood from what i can tell to be the location where a few plants were put many, many years ago. it even grows in 3 feet of large chunky granite we use for drainage in my back yard. you cna find A. italicum literally everywhere in santa cruz, including cracks in teh street. another monster around here is Arum palaestinum, believe it or not. i was actually able to locate the original palce these plants were introduced. several plants at that location had flowers nearing 2 feet long and 1 foot acros s. if anyone wants any A. palaestinum, let me know, i will be happy to get a few out of here. all 3 documented forms grow here. the one that smells like over-ripe fruit, the one that smells exactly like dog poo, and hte one that smells like nothing. the big bad one around here particularly is dracunculus vulgaris. these plants are so insanely invasive that one year after planting 20 large flowering sized tubers bigger than a baseball each, which i got for free from a nice couple down the street from me, this year i dug them up and now have close to 100 babies and larger tubers. i even have 8 or 12 of the marbled forms as well as 3 or 4 variegated plants. keep these plants in pots, for the love of all taht is good.i do indeed know the dangers of releasing invasive plants in an alien environment >From: "ron" +More >Reply-To: Discussion of aroids >To: "'Discussion of aroids'" >CC: Linda Seals >Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Invasive plants >Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 11:36:14 -0400 > >To all of those who think it's OK to grow "just a few" invasive plants "at >home", >I live in Florida and volunteer with the Agriculture Extension Service here. >I read lots of information about the damage that the imported invasive >Genera of flora and fauna are causing to our natives. Most of these living >things were imported with good intentions, to beautify our land, to protect >from insect and animal predators, to improve our food supply, and lastly, >to profit from in business. Most of these intentions worked fine for a >while, but the long term effects are starting to become apparent now, AND it >is to late to reverse much of it. I cannot go into the details of all of >the individual species that are the villains, but I am sure you have read >about most of them. >Our country has thousands of natives that should make most of us happy. As >Aroid lovers, there are hundreds of aroids that have passed the test of time >for environmental safety. We should think very carefully before we try to >import and plant any species that does not have a proven environmental >safety record. It's always nice to have something that no one else has, but >by owning it, you assume the responsibility of quarantining it until you are >confident that it will not be invasive, because it may escape. I believe >this testing should be left to the trusted professional grower. >We all take great pride in our collection. Lets also take great pride in >our environment! DON'T GROW INVASIVE PLANTS!! Ron Kessler > > _____ > >From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] >On Behalf Of Arthur, Brian, Sean Myers >Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 8:16 PM >To: Discussion of aroids >Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] upcoming IAS show and sale > > >Since when(or where) is it illegal to own pistia? It is still sold here in >PA in all of the local nurseries and when i had water gardens i always had >it.. > >Sean Myers > >Patricia Frank wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Unfortunately it is now illegal to own a pistia, let alone show the plant at >the show. I brought in one in the crystal award that goes with it and had it >taken by our Plant Inspector. >So there goes our fun. Alan Fernandez would not be pleased. > >Tricia > >From: "Alan Galloway" > >Reply-To: Alan Galloway > ,Discussion of >aroids >To: >"aroid-l" > >Subject: [Aroid-l] upcoming IAS show and sale >Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 >13:12:32 -0400 > >Folks, > >I've been meaning to send this email for some >time, but have just been too >busy. > >Was talking with an IAS member some >weeks back and he mentioned that there >used to be a contest at the IAS show >and sale where individuals would enter >their largest specimen of Pistia >(water lettuce). He said some were huge. > >Would there be any interest in >reviving this contest? Sounds like a lot of >fun, especially for kids. > > >Alan > >_______________________________________________ >Aroid-l mailing >list >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > > _____ > > >_______________________________________________ > >Aroid-l mailing list > >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > > >_______________________________________________ >Aroid-l mailing list >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Floral Architecture <floralartistry2000 at yahoo.com> on 2004.08.29 at 05:49:01(12081) Ron, There is one drawback to that theory. What is invasive in Fl may not be invasive in CA or OH. One example is chives. They seem innocent enough. Right? Well, those little *#$&*& are all over the place at my uncle's house in OH. I have garlic and regular chives. Both have reseeded into every nook and cranny they can. But here in CA. I can barely get the harvested seeds to sprout and continue growing. But, I am straying here. I agree that invasive species should not be imported but, who can we trust to say that they are invasive? They have to be here to be able to prove their capability. +More I saw a slide program on Oxalis years ago by Michael Vassar of the Huntington. He showed a slide of a gorgeous, miniature yellow Oxalis. Everyone wanted one. Well, he took great pride in telling us we already owned it. It is the one that every gardener pulls out of the pots (or greenhouse) every month. This little miniature Oxalis is rare in the wild and has problems reseeding. Also, it's native habitat is being destroyed. So, who says it is invasive?? The country that it comes from or those here who already have a problem? Granted there are some that have already proven themselves, Phragmites, Purple Loosestrife, Pampas grass, Pistia, Brazilian peppertrees, Canada Thistle (don't even get me started on that one) and so on and so forth. But, who is responsible for the closure on the page of Kudzu harvesting? I'm just waiting for the day that the government says that Am. titanum is a noxious weed and seeds cannot be imported. Or that Spathaphyllum are noxious and must be pulled from all the malls across America because they pose a threat. I am all for increasing native plant production. There are incredible species and varieties that are available. But, if we were not allowed the possibility of growing imported plants we have a serious problem. You would loose a lot of food. Just a few examples would be tomatoes, potatoes, celery, peppers, squash, most grains, most fruits and vegatibles, and so on, and so on, and so on. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "ron" <ronlene at bellsouth.net> on 2004.08.29 at 16:06:09(12085) Hi Danny, It's good to hear a response to my note. This is a very worthwhile example of what can happen when an innocent gardener tries a new plant in his garden. These invasive "treasures" can do the environment NO good. Call your local County Agricultural Extension Service and tell them about it and they can tell you how to eradicate the pest plant. DO NOT offer it to your friends!! This will further pollute our precious environment. Let your conscience be your guide. I am NOT a radical,protestor, environmentalist or a person who chains himself to gates, but I have seen the long term damage that evasive plants and animals can do to our country. Let's hear some more opinions! Ron Kessler +More [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of danny wilsonSent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 12:17 AMTo: aroid-l@gizmoworks.comSubject: RE: [Aroid-l] Invasive plants when ever i grow something that is particularly invasive, monstly tuberous aroids, especially arisaema triphyllum and amorphophallus konjac, i make sure to grow them in pots and not let them go to seed. if i do want to put them in the ground, i just bury them in the pot. i have had first hand experience with extremely invasive plants. the most nasty in my town, samta cruz california, is Arum italicum. it crossed my entire neighborhood from what i can tell to be the location where a few plants were put many, many years ago. it even grows in 3 feet of large chunky granite we use for drainage in my back yard. you cna find A. italicum literally everywhere in santa cruz, including cracks in teh street. another monster around here is Arum palaestinum, believe it or not. i was actually able to locate the original palce these plants were introduced. several plants at that location had flowers nearing 2 feet long and 1 foot acros s. if anyone wants any A. palaestinum, let me know, i will be happy to get a few out of here. all 3 documented forms grow here. the one that smells like over-ripe fruit, the one that smells exactly like dog poo, and hte one that smells like nothing. the big bad one around here particularly is dracunculus vulgaris. these plants are so insanely invasive that one year after planting 20 large flowering sized tubers bigger than a baseball each, which i got for free from a nice couple down the street from me, this year i dug them up and now have close to 100 babies and larger tubers. i even have 8 or 12 of the marbled forms as well as 3 or 4 variegated plants. keep these plants in pots, for the love of all taht is good.i do indeed know the dangers of releasing invasive plants in an alien environment >From: "ron" >Reply-To: Discussion of aroids >To: "'Discussion of aroids'" >CC: Linda Seals >Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Invasive plants >Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 11:36:14 -0400 > >To all of those who think it's OK to grow "just a few" invasive plants "at >home", >I live in Florida and volunteer with the Agriculture Extension Service here. >I read lots of information about the damage that the imported invasive >Genera of flora and fauna are causing to our natives. Most of these living >things were imported with good intentions, to beautify our land, to protect >from insect and animal predators, to improve our food supply, and lastly, >to profit from in business. Most of these intentions worked fine for a >while, but the long term effects are starting to become apparent now, AND it >is to late to reverse much of it. I cannot go into the details of all of >the individual species that are the villains, but I am sure you have read >about most of them. >Our country has thousands of natives that should make most of us happy. As >Aroid lovers, there are hundreds of aroids that have passed the test of time >for environmental safety. We should think very carefully before we try to >import and plant any species that does not have a proven environmental >safety record. It's always nice to have something that no one else has, but >by owning it, you assume the responsibility of quarantining it until you are >confident that it will not be invasive, because it may escape. I believe >this testing should be left to the trusted professional grower. >We all take great pride in our collection. Lets also take great pride in >our environment! DON'T GROW INVASIVE PLANTS!! Ron Kessler > > _____ > >From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] >On Behalf Of Arthur, Brian, Sean Myers >Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 8:16 PM >To: Discussion of aroids >Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] upcoming IAS show and sale > > >Since when(or where) is it illegal to own pistia? It is still sold here in >PA in all of the local nurseries and when i had water gardens i always had >it.. > >Sean Myers > >Patricia Frank wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Unfortunately it is now illegal to own a pistia, let alone show the plant at >the show. I brought in one in the crystal award that goes with it and had it >taken by our Plant Inspector. >So there goes our fun. Alan Fernandez would not be pleased. > >Tricia > >From: "Alan Galloway" > >Reply-To: Alan Galloway > ,Discussion of >aroids >To: >"aroid-l" > >Subject: [Aroid-l] upcoming IAS show and sale >Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 >13:12:32 -0400 > >Folks, > >I've been meaning to send this email for some >time, but have just been too >busy. > >Was talking with an IAS member some >weeks back and he mentioned that there >used to be a contest at the IAS show >and sale where individuals would enter >their largest specimen of Pistia >(water lettuce). He said some were huge. > >Would there be any interest in >reviving this contest? Sounds like a lot of >fun, especially for kids. > > >Alan > >_______________________________________________ >Aroid-l mailing >list >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > > _____ > > >_______________________________________________ > >Aroid-l mailing list > >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > > >_______________________________________________ >Aroid-l mailing list >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Matyas Buzgo" <mbuzgo at botany.ufl.edu> on 2004.08.29 at 16:06:28(12086) Is Pistia "invasive"? Ten years ago, there was still a dispute, whether Pistia originated in the New World or in the Old World. That is, nobody really knew, where it was native to - and where "invasive". Has there been new evidence published, showing that Pistia has not been around in the warm climate of the New World since prehistoric times? Please provide new literature (after 1994) that shows Pistia was introduced (by Europeans or other Old Worlders). With "shows" I mean hard evidence. I am aware that several articles call Pistia "invasive", especially to Florida. But I never found evidence to proof Pistia's absence prior to Europan arrival. Believing something is "invasive" because everybody says so is not science, but mythology. Note: Does the community consider a plant "invasive" because it can temporarily form monocultures? Then, are Phragmites australis and Fagus silvatica "invasive" in Europe? Thanks Matyas +More _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "ron" <ronlene at bellsouth.net> on 2004.08.29 at 17:32:30(12091) Hi John, Sorry for the delay. I recently installed Windows SP2 and the Firewall thinks my Aroid mail is Junk ( Who Knows?). I'm slowly catching up. You have many good points. Regarding some of the food crops, it may be easier to buy them in the supermarket, than let them invade out yards. Most of the other food crops have a proven record of safety. This is all I am suggesting. Kudzu, Pistia, Brazilian Peppertree, Australian Pine, Umbrella Tree, etc and some fish species do not. Careless plant importers that recently brought in diseases such as the Cycad scale, the lobate scale, the rapid Oak disease are not helping either. We should not contribute to the problem. Ron +More -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Floral Architecture Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 1:49 AM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Invasive plants Ron, There is one drawback to that theory. What is invasive in Fl may not be invasive in CA or OH. One example is chives. They seem innocent enough. Right? Well, those little *#$&*& are all over the place at my uncle's house in OH. I have garlic and regular chives. Both have reseeded into every nook and cranny they can. But here in CA. I can barely get the harvested seeds to sprout and continue growing. But, I am straying here. I agree that invasive species should not be imported but, who can we trust to say that they are invasive? They have to be here to be able to prove their capability. I saw a slide program on Oxalis years ago by Michael Vassar of the Huntington. He showed a slide of a gorgeous, miniature yellow Oxalis. Everyone wanted one. Well, he took great pride in telling us we already owned it. It is the one that every gardener pulls out of the pots (or greenhouse) every month. This little miniature Oxalis is rare in the wild and has problems reseeding. Also, it's native habitat is being destroyed. So, who says it is invasive?? The country that it comes from or those here who already have a problem? Granted there are some that have already proven themselves, Phragmites, Purple Loosestrife, Pampas grass, Pistia, Brazilian peppertrees, Canada Thistle (don't even get me started on that one) and so on and so forth. But, who is responsible for the closure on the page of Kudzu harvesting? I'm just waiting for the day that the government says that Am. titanum is a noxious weed and seeds cannot be imported. Or that Spathaphyllum are noxious and must be pulled from all the malls across America because they pose a threat. I am all for increasing native plant production. There are incredible species and varieties that are available. But, if we were not allowed the possibility of growing imported plants we have a serious problem. You would loose a lot of food. Just a few examples would be tomatoes, potatoes, celery, peppers, squash, most grains, most fruits and vegatibles, and so on, and so on, and so on. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Tony Avent <tony at plantdelights.com> on 2004.08.29 at 20:04:10(12097) Aroiders: Could we please use accepted terminology when discussing invasive plants. An "invasive species" is defined as a species that is 1) non-native (or alien) to the ecosystem under consideration and 2) whose introduction causes or is likely to cause economic or environmental harm or harm to human health. (Executive Order 13112). http://www.invasivespecies.gov. Environmental harm is usually defined at disruption and displacement of native plants in a functioning natural ecosystem. Many of us have spent quite a bit of time working on this issue and misusing the term invasive doesn't help address the real issue. Seeding around in the garden may seem invasive to a gardener, but does not fit the official federal definition. Thanks. +More At 09:16 PM 8/28/2004 -0700, you wrote: > keep these plants in pots, for the love of all taht is good. >i do indeed know the dangers of releasing invasive plants in an alien >environment > > ><> ><> ><> ><> >Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Invasive plants >Date: Sat, >28 Aug 2004 11:36:14 -0400 > >To all of those who think it's OK to grow >"just a few" invasive plants "at >home", >I live in Florida and volunteer >with the Agriculture Extension Service here. >I read lots of information >about the damage that the imported invasive >Genera of flora and fauna are >causing to our natives. Most of these living >things were imported with >good intentions, to beautify our land, to protect > and lastly, > Most >of these intentions worked fine for a >while, but the long term effects >are starting to become apparent now, AND it > I cannot go into the >details of all of >the individual species that are the villains, but I am >sure you have read >about most of them. > As >Aroid lovers, there are >hundreds of aroids that have passed the test of time > We should think >very carefully before we try to >import and plant any species that does >not have a proven environmental > It's always nice to have something that >no one else has, but >by owning it, you assume the responsibility of >quarantining it until you are > I believe >this testing should be left >to the trusted professional grower. > Lets also take great pride in > > Ron Kessler > > _____ > >From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com >[mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] >On Behalf Of Arthur, Brian, Sean >Myers >Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 8:16 PM >To: Discussion of aroids >>Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] upcoming IAS show and sale > > >Since when(or >where) is it illegal to own pistia? It is still sold here in > i always >had >it.. > >Sean Myers > >Patricia Frank wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >Unfortunately it is now illegal to own a pistia, let >alone show the plant at >the show. I brought in one in the crystal award >that goes with it and had it >taken by our Plant Inspector. >So there >goes our fun. Alan Fernandez would not be pleased. > >Tricia >> <> >><>>Reply-To: Alan Galloway ><><>,Discussion of > <><>>To: > <><> >>>>Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 >>>>>I've been meaning to send this email for >some >>>>Was talking with an IAS member some >>used to be a contest at >the IAS show >>their largest specimen of Pistia > >>Would there be any >interest in > >> >>>>>Aroid-l mailing >>Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com >>>http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > > _____ > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Aroid-l mailing list > > >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > >>http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > > >>_______________________________________________ >Aroid-l mailing list >>Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to >get there! _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing >list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Bobby McGehe" <bobbymcgehe at bellsouth.net> on 2004.08.29 at 21:35:08(12100) Thank You! Bobby +More ----- Original Message ----- To: "Discussion of aroids" Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 4:04 PM Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Invasive plants > Aroiders: > > Could we please use accepted terminology when discussing invasive plants. > An "invasive species" is defined as a species that is 1) non-native (or > alien) to the ecosystem under consideration and 2) whose introduction > causes or is likely to cause economic or environmental harm or harm to > human health. (Executive Order 13112). http://www.invasivespecies.gov. > Environmental harm is usually defined at disruption and displacement of > native plants in a functioning natural ecosystem. > > Many of us have spent quite a bit of time working on this issue and > misusing the term invasive doesn't help address the real issue. Seeding > around in the garden may seem invasive to a gardener, but does not fit the > official federal definition. Thanks. > > At 09:16 PM 8/28/2004 -0700, you wrote: > > keep these plants in pots, for the love of all taht is > good. > >i do indeed know the dangers of releasing invasive plants in an alien > >environment > > > > ><> ><> ><> ><> >Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Invasive plants >Date: Sat, > >28 Aug 2004 11:36:14 -0400 > >To all of those who think it's OK to grow > >"just a few" invasive plants "at >home", >I live in Florida and volunteer > >with the Agriculture Extension Service here. >I read lots of information > >about the damage that the imported invasive >Genera of flora and fauna are > >causing to our natives. Most of these living >things were imported with > >good intentions, to beautify our land, to protect > and lastly, > Most > >of these intentions worked fine for a >while, but the long term effects > >are starting to become apparent now, AND it > I cannot go into the > >details of all of >the individual species that are the villains, but I am > >sure you have read >about most of them. > As >Aroid lovers, there are > >hundreds of aroids that have passed the test of time > We should think > >very carefully before we try to >import and plant any species that does > >not have a proven environmental > It's always nice to have something that > >no one else has, but >by owning it, you assume the responsibility of > >quarantining it until you are > I believe >this testing should be left > >to the trusted professional grower. > Lets also take great pride in > > > Ron Kessler > > _____ > >From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com > >[mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] >On Behalf Of Arthur, Brian, Sean > >Myers >Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 8:16 PM >To: Discussion of aroids > >>Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] upcoming IAS show and sale > > >Since when(or > >where) is it illegal to own pistia? It is still sold here in > i always > >had >it.. > >Sean Myers > >Patricia Frank wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >Unfortunately it is now illegal to own a pistia, let > >alone show the plant at >the show. I brought in one in the crystal award > >that goes with it and had it >taken by our Plant Inspector. >So there > >goes our fun. Alan Fernandez would not be pleased. > >Tricia >> <> > >><>>Reply-To: Alan Galloway ><><>,Discussion of > <><>>To: > <><> > >>>>Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 >>>>>I've been meaning to send this email for > >some >>>>Was talking with an IAS member some >>used to be a contest at > >the IAS show >>their largest specimen of Pistia > >>Would there be any > >interest in > >> >>>>>Aroid-l mailing >>Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > >>>http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > > _____ > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Aroid-l mailing list > > > >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > > >>http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > > > >>_______________________________________________ >Aroid-l mailing list > >>Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to > >get there! _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing > >list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > Tony Avent > Plant Delights Nursery @ > Juniper Level Botanic Garden > 9241 Sauls Road > Raleigh, NC 27603 USA > Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F > Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F > USDA Hardiness Zone 7b > email tony@plantdelights.com > website http://www.plantdel.com > phone 919 772-4794 > fax 919 772-4752 > "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least > three times" - Avent > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-l mailing list > Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "plantsman" <plantsman at prodigy.net> on 2004.08.29 at 22:12:46(12101) Danny, I would very much like to help you rid your neighborhood of some of those Dracunculis and A. palaestinum (preferably non-dog poo scented), the bigger the better. D. vulgaris is quite hardy here although I'm not sure about A. palaestinum but would be willing to experiment with in-ground and in pots. Please contact me if you're serious. I'd be happy to compensate you for shipping and handling. David Sizemore +More Kingsport, TN (Zone 6a) maui4me at charter.net ----- Original Message ----- To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 12:16 AM Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Invasive plants when ever i grow something that is particularly invasive, monstly tuberous aroids, especially arisaema triphyllum and amorphophallus konjac, i make sure to grow them in pots and not let them go to seed. if i do want to put them in the ground, i just bury them in the pot. i have had first hand experience with extremely invasive plants. the most nasty in my town, samta cruz california, is Arum italicum. it crossed my entire neighborhood from what i can tell to be the location where a few plants were put many, many years ago. it even grows in 3 feet of large chunky granite we use for drainage in my back yard. you cna find A. italicum literally everywhere in santa cruz, including cracks in teh street. another monster around here is Arum palaestinum, believe it or not. i was actually able to locate the original palce these plants were introduced. several plants at that location had flowers nearing 2 feet long and 1 foot acros s. if anyone wants any A. palaestinum, let me know, i will be happy to get a few out of here. all 3 documented forms grow here. the one that smells like over-ripe fruit, the one that smells exactly like dog poo, and hte one that smells like nothing. the big bad one around here particularly is dracunculus vulgaris. these plants are so insanely invasive that one year after planting 20 large flowering sized tubers bigger than a baseball each, which i got for free from a nice couple down the street from me, this year i dug them up and now have close to 100 babies and larger tubers. i even have 8 or 12 of the marbled forms as well as 3 or 4 variegated plants. keep these plants in pots, for the love of all taht is good. i do indeed know the dangers of releasing invasive plants in an alien environment _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Floral Architecture <floralartistry2000 at yahoo.com> on 2004.08.30 at 01:00:06(12107) Ron, I think you are missing my point. Invasiveness is all subjective. Pistia is a complete menace to natives in Fl and other warm gulf coast areas, not in New England, WA, or the Midwest. They cannot be deemed invasive until trials are done in the areas to be introduced. What an Oxalis is doing in S. Africa is no indication what they will do in S. CA. O. pes-capri is unbelievable here. It is quite colorful when it is blooming (which doesn't help with idiotic gardeners who harvest bulbs and trasplant them). But, it still will displace natives and cause environmental harm as Tony has pointed out. Phragmites, while a great commercial crop in Europe for millenia, has no use here other than to remove essential habitats for some already unstable environs for natives. +More I agree that devastating things have been imported. Scales, ants, etc. but, that is a phtyo concern not a plant potential concern. It has no relavance to what is being brought in, only how it is brought in. I would love the day that some plants become invasive in any environment. Because of the small minded people that have set up the phyto and white list requirements to control all imports until a plant is deemed acceptable, things that will never be invasive, now incur unnecessary costs for imports. Things such as Worsleyas and various colors of Clivia are held up in customs for longer than necessary. Thus, increasing my costs due to loss. "A government is best that governs least". I think the focus needs to be to address those that are already here. As examples, pampas grass, kudzu, Calla lilies, morning glories. Let's get some control here. Anyone that sells these plants should be boycotted. Ok, no one sells kudzu but the others are commonly offered in CA at such mass retailers as Home Depot. Let me take Morning glories as an example. I have them voluntarily seeded all over my fence. They get not one drop of water in the summer. Still they creep into my pots 20' away and take root, seed everywhere, and just plain cause havoc. And yet, everytime someone comes by, they want to buy some. I give them the whole soapbox speach as to why they will be damned if they even think of buying them. I also state that idiotic friends who did not heed my warning will not even allow me to broach the subject 3 years after they had them removed (and are still removing them). My other position is that you cannot say that all non-natives are unnecessary. Let's go back to the vegitables and then also include ornamentals. If you took everything out of your garden that was not an original native to your area, your garden (if not planned with a HUGE bankroll) would be very boring. There are some gorgeous CA natives that are extremely garden worthy and I could make a pure native garden here in SO CA. but, most of the US is not as lucky as to have them available to them. So, in conclusion, I think that it should be up to the individual to make their own decision about invasiveness. But, anyone who is not well informed should not risk it. But, as we know, most of the general public is just plain stupid and don't listen to those of us who really could help them form making the mistake of their lives. I have gone so far as with clients to throw away plants they have put in or refused to plant them and force them to return them to the place of purchase for a complete refund. I also instruct them to scold the salesperson for selling a weed. I'm sure that they don't do that but it never hurts to try. I get very PO'd that I can't get Worsleyas in without a HUGE hassle because the people at the FL customs/Ag dept. think they might be invasive and hold them for 2 weeks until they can determine what they are and what they will do. If Worsleyas ever become a weed, I think the world can rejoice. I'll write a hymm to celebrate. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "ron" <ronlene at bellsouth.net> on 2004.08.30 at 14:48:35(12116) Hi John, I really did not miss your point. You said it very well. I agree with most everything you have to say. Unfortunately, plant inspection, at Customs does not always have adequately staffed people to handle the exotics and we lose to many worthwhile additions. I think the Aroid-l website has very astute (and humorous) growers and I am sure they spread the word about invasive plants. Say NO!!! to "The STRONGEST WILL SURVIVE". Ron +More -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 9:00 PM To: ron; 'Discussion of aroids' Cc: Linda Seals Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Invasive plants Ron, I think you are missing my point. Invasiveness is all subjective. Pistia is a complete menace to natives in Fl and other warm gulf coast areas, not in New England, WA, or the Midwest. They cannot be deemed invasive until trials are done in the areas to be introduced. What an Oxalis is doing in S. Africa is no indication what they will do in S. CA. O. pes-capri is unbelievable here. It is quite colorful when it is blooming (which doesn't help with idiotic gardeners who harvest bulbs and trasplant them). But, it still will displace natives and cause environmental harm as Tony has pointed out. Phragmites, while a great commercial crop in Europe for millenia, has no use here other than to remove essential habitats for some already unstable environs for natives. I agree that devastating things have been imported. Scales, ants, etc. but, that is a phtyo concern not a plant potential concern. It has no relavance to what is being brought in, only how it is brought in. I would love the day that some plants become invasive in any environment. Because of the small minded people that have set up the phyto and white list requirements to control all imports until a plant is deemed acceptable, things that will never be invasive, now incur unnecessary costs for imports. Things such as Worsleyas and various colors of Clivia are held up in customs for longer than necessary. Thus, increasing my costs due to loss. "A government is best that governs least". I think the focus needs to be to address those that are already here. As examples, pampas grass, kudzu, Calla lilies, morning glories. Let's get some control here. Anyone that sells these plants should be boycotted. Ok, no one sells kudzu but the others are commonly offered in CA at such mass retailers as Home Depot. Let me take Morning glories as an example. I have them voluntarily seeded all over my fence. They get not one drop of water in the summer. Still they creep into my pots 20' away and take root, seed everywhere, and just plain cause havoc. And yet, everytime someone comes by, they want to buy some. I give them the whole soapbox speach as to why they will be damned if they even think of buying them. I also state that idiotic friends who did not heed my warning will not even allow me to broach the subject 3 years after they had them removed (and are still removing them). My other position is that you cannot say that all non-natives are unnecessary. Let's go back to the vegitables and then also include ornamentals. If you took everything out of your garden that was not an original native to your area, your garden (if not planned with a HUGE bankroll) would be very boring. There are some gorgeous CA natives that are extremely garden worthy and I could make a pure native garden here in SO CA. but, most of the US is not as lucky as to have them available to them. So, in conclusion, I think that it should be up to the individual to make their own decision about invasiveness. But, anyone who is not well informed should not risk it. But, as we know, most of the general public is just plain stupid and don't listen to those of us who really could help them form making the mistake of their lives. I have gone so far as with clients to throw away plants they have put in or refused to plant them and force them to return them to the place of purchase for a complete refund. I also instruct them to scold the salesperson for selling a weed. I'm sure that they don't do that but it never hurts to try. I get very PO'd that I can't get Worsleyas in without a HUGE hassle because the people at the FL customs/Ag dept. think they might be invasive and hold them for 2 weeks until they can determine what they are and what they will do. If Worsleyas ever become a weed, I think the world can rejoice. I'll write a hymm to celebrate. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "hanson, skip" <shanson at emc.com> on 2004.08.31 at 15:02:40(12136) Title: Message Danny, I also live in Santa Cruz. Nice to see a local Aroider on the list. I would be interested in getting some of the A. palaestinum you mention. I promise to only grow them in pots [;). Cheers, Skip +More -----Original Message-----From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of danny wilsonSent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 9:17 PMTo: aroid-l@gizmoworks.comSubject: RE: [Aroid-l] Invasive plants when ever i grow something that is particularly invasive, monstly tuberous aroids, especially arisaema triphyllum and amorphophallus konjac, i make sure to grow them in pots and not let them go to seed. if i do want to put them in the ground, i just bury them in the pot. i have had first hand experience with extremely invasive plants. the most nasty in my town, samta cruz california, is Arum italicum. it crossed my entire neighborhood from what i can tell to be the location where a few plants were put many, many years ago. it even grows in 3 feet of large chunky granite we use for drainage in my back yard. you cna find A. italicum literally everywhere in santa cruz, including cracks in teh street. another monster around here is Arum palaestinum, believe it or not. i was actually able to locate the original palce these plants were introduced. several plants at that location had flowers nearing 2 feet long and 1 foot acros s. if anyone wants any A. palaestinum, let me know, i will be happy to get a few out of here. all 3 documented forms grow here. the one that smells like over-ripe fruit, the one that smells exactly like dog poo, and hte one that smells like nothing. the big bad one around here particularly is dracunculus vulgaris. these plants are so insanely invasive that one year after planting 20 large flowering sized tubers bigger than a baseball each, which i got for free from a nice couple down the street from me, this year i dug them up and now have close to 100 babies and larger tubers. i even have 8 or 12 of the marbled forms as well as 3 or 4 variegated plants. keep these plants in pots, for the love of all taht is good.i do indeed know the dangers of releasing invasive plants in an alien environment >From: "ron" >Reply-To: Discussion of aroids >To: "'Discussion of aroids'" >CC: Linda Seals >Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Invasive plants >Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 11:36:14 -0400 > >To all of those who think it's OK to grow "just a few" invasive plants "at >home", >I live in Florida and volunteer with the Agriculture Extension Service here. >I read lots of information about the damage that the imported invasive >Genera of flora and fauna are causing to our natives. Most of these living >things were imported with good intentions, to beautify our land, to protect >from insect and animal predators, to improve our food supply, and lastly, >to profit from in business. Most of these intentions worked fine for a >while, but the long term effects are starting to become apparent now, AND it >is to late to reverse much of it. I cannot go into the details of all of >the individual species that are the villains, but I am sure you have read >about most of them. >Our country has thousands of natives that should make most of us happy. As >Aroid lovers, there are hundreds of aroids that have passed the test of time >for environmental safety. We should think very carefully before we try to >import and plant any species that does not have a proven environmental >safety record. It's always nice to have something that no one else has, but >by owning it, you assume the responsibility of quarantining it until you are >confident that it will not be invasive, because it may escape. I believe >this testing should be left to the trusted professional grower. >We all take great pride in our collection. Lets also take great pride in >our environment! DON'T GROW INVASIVE PLANTS!! Ron Kessler > > _____ > >From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] >On Behalf Of Arthur, Brian, Sean Myers >Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 8:16 PM >To: Discussion of aroids >Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] upcoming IAS show and sale > > >Since when(or where) is it illegal to own pistia? It is still sold here in >PA in all of the local nurseries and when i had water gardens i always had >it.. > >Sean Myers > >Patricia Frank wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Unfortunately it is now illegal to own a pistia, let alone show the plant at >the show. I brought in one in the crystal award that goes with it and had it >taken by our Plant Inspector. >So there goes our fun. Alan Fernandez would not be pleased. > >Tricia > >From: "Alan Galloway" > >Reply-To: Alan Galloway > ,Discussion of >aroids >To: >"aroid-l" > >Subject: [Aroid-l] upcoming IAS show and sale >Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 >13:12:32 -0400 > >Folks, > >I've been meaning to send this email for some >time, but have just been too >busy. > >Was talking with an IAS member some >weeks back and he mentioned that there >used to be a contest at the IAS show >and sale where individuals would enter >their largest specimen of Pistia >(water lettuce). He said some were huge. > >Would there be any interest in >reviving this contest? Sounds like a lot of >fun, especially for kids. > > >Alan > >_______________________________________________ >Aroid-l mailing >list >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > > _____ > > >_______________________________________________ > >Aroid-l mailing list > >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > > >_______________________________________________ >Aroid-l mailing list >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Steve Marak <samarak at gizmoworks.com> on 2004.09.01 at 03:28:29(12139) On Sun, 29 Aug 2004, plantsman wrote: > Danny, > > I would very much like to help you rid your neighborhood of some of those > Dracunculis and A. palaestinum (preferably non-dog poo scented), the bigger > the better. +More On Tue, 31 Aug 2004, hanson, skip wrote: > Danny, > I also live in Santa Cruz. Nice to see a local Aroider on the list. I > would be interested in getting some of > the A. palaestinum you mention. I promise to only grow them in pots Me three - I've been trying to get my hands on some of those "weedy" California A. palaestinums for about 10 years now. I'll bet they'd be a bit more restrained in my climate! Steve -- Steve Marak -- samarak@gizmoworks.com _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: MossyTrail at cs.com on 2004.09.07 at 05:52:48(12173) "ron" wrote: >To all of those who think it's OK to grow "just a few" invasive plants "at >home", >by owning it, you assume the responsibility of quarantining it until you are >confident that it will not be invasive, because it may escape. I believe >this testing should be left to the trusted professional grower. >We all take great pride in our collection. Lets also take great pride in >our environment! DON'T GROW INVASIVE PLANTS!! Ron Kessler > If I may add something... Even the professional grower may not be able to keep a handle on the plants being tested. Where I currently live, in the Hawaiian Islands, one of the most troublesome weed shrubs is Clidemia, also known as Coster's curse. It was originally imported legally by a botanic garden, but escaped. Now it is too widespread and abundant to control. You have to go pretty high into the mountains to find much native vegetation in Hawaii anymore; most of our rainforests are reminiscent of the fictional island of New Switzerland (the setting for _The Swiss Family Robinson_) -- that is, an impossible mixture of every part of the globe. Incidentally, another of our worst weeds is an aroid popular with plant enthusiasts: the familiar Epipremnum aureum, with habits akin to the kudsu you Southerners know and love. Jason Hernandez +More Naturalist-at-Large _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

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