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  an apolgy if it is order
From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.05.31 at 21:56:04(17650)
To everyone on Aroid l,

If any apology for some of my comments or questions on Aroid l is in order, I gladly offer it.

I received a very disturbing message tonight with a direct copy (slightly edited) that I posted on this forum about my construction of my epiphyte tree. The message came from a person whose name showed up as Holly Cooper. I do not know Holly but she has posted a similar message once before on the GardenWeb. In that case, another individual had requested a photo of Anthurium cubense. I had taken a photo of Denis' plant which was tagged Anthurium cubense with Leland Miyano standing with it at the 2007 IAS Aroid Show. As it turned out, Leland later pointed out the vein count on that plant did not match Dr. Croat's scientific description so we learned later that plant is not a full species and liekly a hybrid. The moderators of the GardenWeb forum took down her post since it referred to me by a strong term.

If I have irritated any of you with my constant comments and questions, I sincerely apologize. I am only a student of aroid botany and constantly ask questions in order to learn. I don't believe anyone can find any place on my website or on the net where I have ever claimed to be an expert in plants. I just study them, ask a lot of questions of Dr. Croat, Leland and Julius and I probably read too much. The only aroid experts I know are the ones I try to accurately quote in my internet articles.

This is what I received from Ms. Cooper. I have purposely removed her email address:

From: harrywitmore at witmore.net (Harry Witmore) on 2008.06.01 at 10:33:06(17655)
Steve, I for one always read your post since I'm sure to learn something in
the process. Whomever Ms Cooper is, I think she's most likely the a*s.

Keep the discussion coming since while I don't always agree with you or
anyone on this list or any other, I think your questions always make me
think and learn.

Keep it up and don't be detoured by crap like this message. No apology
necessary.

The epiphyte tree is awesome. I have to have one now!

Harry Witmore

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From: conradfleming at yahoo.com (Conrad Fleming) on 2008.06.01 at 10:33:28(17656)
Dear Steve,

All I can say is, if you are the recipient of vicious hatred like that, you must be doing something right! I myself have experienced something like this over the years. When certain people hate you, it is actually a compliment!

Keep up the good work,

Conrad

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From: ronlene at bellsouth.net (ronlene at bellsouth.net) on 2008.06.01 at 12:35:15(17660)
I do not often write in, because I am a rank amateur with Aroids. I do not know you or that nasty woman who wrote that email to the site. I think someone with such a lack of character should be severely chastised. Ron
-------------- Original message from "ExoticRainforest" : --------------

To everyone on Aroid l,

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From: ironious2 at yahoo.com (E Morano) on 2008.06.01 at 13:14:26(17661)
Sounds to me like holly is the idiot here! Anybody could have missed a vein count. Who routinely counts veins in order to identify a plant?? As for people "talking", it could be one of two things. Either she's out right lying or people are talking. But People all ways talk about each other. I highly doubt emails are "flying" about you. Holly needs to get off her high horse. She's obviously a very bitter woman with no class.

ExoticRainforest wrote: To everyone on Aroid l,

If any apology for some of my comments or questions on Aroid l is in order, I gladly offer it.

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From: ju-bo at msn.com (ju-bo at msn.com) on 2008.06.01 at 17:02:08(17663)
________________________________
> From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com
> To: aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 23:56:04 -0500
> Subject: [Aroid-l] an apolgy if it is order

Dear Steve,

Just ignore this silly witch. You do not need to and owe no one an appology!
There are some people who are motivated by ''who knows what'' that no one can, or will ever please them, and this "Holly Cooper'' is for certain one of them. They hide behind pseudo-names, will NEVER step ''into the light'' and face anyone, and try to accomplish their nasty deeds from behind a veil of darkness, trying to tear down anything which they cound NEVER accomplish or come close to doing. Ask that witch what he/she has EVER accomplished, and NOTHING will come back at you! THEY are the "loosers'' in life, not good folk like you who do all that you do for the love and pleasure of it! I`d be willing to bet (and I am NOT a ganmbler!) that there are few if ANY e-mails flying anywhere on ANY forum, certainly NOT between anyone on the aroid-l forum. I can speak for myself, and believe that I can also do so for Tom Croat of MOBOT who is a VERY good personal friend, AND for Leland Miyano, also a GREAT friend to both you and I-- we all are PROUD to be of assistance to you and to be associated with yo
u and the fantastic work and results you have and continue to produce, almost on a daily basis! Ignore the ''ner-do-wells'' and ''nay-sayers'', keep up the good work.
Since I am one of the people who it would seem Holly alleges am ashamed of you, I DARE this "Holly Cooper" to write to me and debate this! How DARE she/he/it take it upon themself to even TRY to speak for me!! "There are none so blind as those who will not see".
You have my permission to post this anywhere and send it to anyone you choose.
You just keep up the GREAT work!

Julius Boos

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From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.06.01 at 17:18:28(17664)
Julius, I never had any doubt about you, Leland and Tom. All of you volunteer new mterial and corrections on a regular basis. My concern is those who may have perceived my attempts to learn and share what all of you teach me with others as some sort of snobbery. I do not wish to be seen as an "expert", simply an honest student of aroid botany and the botany of tropical rain forest species in general. As you know, I make slight modifications to my website virtually on a daily basis. I do it every single time anyone with scientific expertise brings a problem to my attention and will continue to do so for as long as I have the capability.

The folks on Aroid l teach me new things every day. And for that, I will always be grateful. But still, to any who find what I write offensive. I do sincerely apologize. And that includes Holly.

Steve

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From: crogers at ecoanalysts.com (Christopher Rogers) on 2008.06.01 at 20:15:00(17665)
You gotta be kidding!!!!

I am certainly not laughing or pitying you. You are asking great questions,
often the same questions that others have, and sometimes the questions
people want to ask but do not know how. Steve, I am not in any way ashamed
to be associated with you. I am proud to be of your acquaintance, as a
member of the IAS, and a part of the Aroid-L.

It is true that in a public forum, one can always be found who will be
offended. But you do a service to aroiders everywhere. You should be
thanked, not maligned.

Best always,

Christopher

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From: botanist at malesiana.com (Peter Boyce) on 2008.06.01 at 20:47:07(17666)
Dear Steve,

As a member of the IAS board, and a long-standing (sometimes longer than I care to remember...!) aroider, may I offer my sincere apologies for the cowardly and out-of-order email you have received. It sickens me.

The whole point of aroid-l is to disseminate information, whether in terms of offering or asking; that is what keeps the whole thing active and fresh and a pleasure to log into every day. You and I have many time swapped information, and it is a pleasure to continue to do so.

Those of us 'out here' who have the privilege and pleasure of working with aroids every day in a professional capacity (and note here I am referring to ANY professional capacity, be it horticultural or scientific) are almost without exception delighted to share what little knowledge we have and no-one in their right mind would accuse any of us of 'grandstanding'.

Steve, keep posting.... y'hear...

Pete

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From: botanist at malesiana.com (Peter Boyce) on 2008.06.01 at 20:54:21(17667)
Steve,

I live in a country where we constantly struggle to get our students to read..... believe me...you can NEVER read too much. I have worked with aroids in one way or another for 30+ years; professionally for 20+ years... I read about aroids, any aroids, every day. And every day I learn something new...this week so far I have learned something new about pollination, the way roots glue themselves to rocks and how the shoot tips of a rheophytes resist water flow in spate. Tom, who has just tuned 70, has worked on aroids for over 40 years... he reads every day... Josef has worked on aroids nerly 50 years... he reads every day... and I would bet that they too are constantly learning new things.

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From: cyndikrall at aol.com (cyndikrall at aol.com) on 2008.06.01 at 21:53:47(17668)
Steve,

I enjoy your posts and your website very much. I sincerely doubt the malcontent emailing you is really a "Holly Cooper", it's usually someone who flames others from the safety of an anonymous fabricated name.

This sort of trash does not deserve to be acknowledged, nor is any apology on your part necessary. We all learn from each other, and that is precisely why forums such as this exist. Screaming the loudest does not make "Holly Cooper" correct. Ignore "her."

Happy growing,
Cyndi

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From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.06.01 at 23:33:13(17669)
Thanks to all of you. I enjoy exchaning information with all of you too much to give up what I do, but at the same time, I never set out to be "pompous". I just want to learn along with the rest of you, and there are so many great teachers on Aroid l and within the IAS. For me, there are new and unexplored worlds to chart in aroids every day and with my atrium I am lucky to have my own growing and living classroom. For me, I wish I hadn't waited until my late 40's to start! But now in my early 60's and a new kidney which is functioning quite healthily I have more years to learn. Who knows, I may yet try for that degree!

Tom, where do I sign up?

Steve Lucas

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From: exotics at hawaii.rr.com (Windy Aubrey) on 2008.06.01 at 23:40:19(17670)
Gee, friends could we please not consider this a sexist thing, just because the name 'Holly' is attached.
Calling this person a witch and other degrading female equivalence are equally offensive. I too am a female, but consider myself a 'person' equal to all human being, not lesser in anyway because of my sex.
Personally, being in my 50's, it is kind of hard to get over the old-time thought that women are lesser than someone with external plumbing!
If someone is a nut for their outlandish opinion, they are a nut. It doesn't have anything to do with their sex.
Maybe some of you who have responded in this manner should get over it.

Sincerely,
Windy Aubrey, an aroid enthusiast, not a ball buster!

--
From: Peter Boyce

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From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.06.02 at 04:19:49(17673)
Pete, this message from you is more valuable than I can make clear. I have several mentors who are my honest-to-goodness heroes and friends. And I hope you know you are one. Tom, Simon, Eduardo, Alistair, Julius, Leland and many others, a list too long to mention, help me all the time! My goal has been only to self-educate myself and to try to share what I learn in a way anyone interested in aroids can utilize. I am a writer who has been putting words on paper for over 30 years. But without accurate sources there is nothing to write!

You have answered my questions many, many times and always help to make what I'm trying to understand clear. And that is at least in part the reason I quote all of you rather than trying to put what you teach in my own words. As a non-scientist my words are useless, but your words have value!

So thanks for your kindness and your continued help. With the same thanks to all the professionals who teach me something new in their journals and emails on virtually a daily basis. If I could offer advice to anyone who is interested in aroids it would be to build a library of good scientific material on the genus. In the beginning the reading is difficult, but I time you will begin to understand the scientific terms and all those questions become clear answers.

Now, a big request! Tell us about "the way roots glue themselves to rocks and how the shoot tips of a rheophytes resist water flow in spate." You just opened up a new file in my brain and I want to know!

Steve

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From: pugturd at alltel.net (Brian Williams) on 2008.06.02 at 05:30:44(17676)

Steve I have had some vicious e-mails over the years and I have found
that some people have a different view of who and what you may stand
for. I enjoy my work and my obsessions very much. I also am polite as
possible and I try to be understanding and fair in all that I do. Their
are just some people who like to keep people down and others that just
may be out of their minds. I have found your questions and your
detective work on finding the true names for your plants very
interesting and it has made me change more than a few tags on my own
plants. Who would have thought that I would have a wrong name on a
plant?? Keep up the good work
--
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From: jonathan.ertelt at Vanderbilt.Edu (Ertelt, Jonathan B) on 2008.06.02 at 06:30:23(17677)
Steve,

I read your posting regarding "Holly Cooper" late last night, late enough
so that I didn't want to tackle it at that point. Now I'm up and am glad
to see numerous other folks have already responded in appropriate ways. In
short, who can figure what motivates some people - I can't, though I do
understand and am aware that there are such folks out there - more's the
pity. She had nothing accurate to say in her post to you, whereas all the
good friends and colleagues that have written in response to your post
about her have offered insights and truths. You're doing lots of good my
friend with your excitement and enthusiasm both in learning and in your
sharing. Keep up the great work, and keep asking questions, offering
information, etc.

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From: sparky4114 at mac.com (Thom Powell) on 2008.06.02 at 09:07:49(17679)
Steve,

NO APOLOGY IS NEEDED!!!!!

CONGRATS ON THE TREE!!! LOOKS GREAT!!!!

IT BOTHERS ME WHEN PEOPLE LOOK DOWN ON OTHERS (BECAUSE THEY THINK
THAT KNOWLEDGE GIVES THEM POWER) . WE ARE "TALKING" ABOUT PLANTS
HERE! I WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND PEOPLE'S DRAMAS.

THE BEST INFORMATION COMES FROM OTHERS THAT HAVE DONE THE
EXPERIENCE! I TOO GET THAT "SNOBBISH" ATTITUDE, FROM A CO-WORKER
BECAUSE MY COLLEGE MAJOR WAS NOT IN HORTICULTURE !!!

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!! LOVE YOUR SITE!!

THOM

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From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com (brian lee) on 2008.06.02 at 10:07:27(17681)
Dear Steve,

Aloha. I have been away in the field looking for
Hawaiian palms. Let me respond by telling you about
the past few days.

Last week, I was told of a population of palms by one
of the top botanists in Hawaii. We arranged to hike
to the palms to investigate and found that this
population will be significant biogeographically and
perhaps, taxonomically.

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From: Thomas.Croat at mobot.org (Tom Croat) on 2008.06.02 at 13:46:28(17685)
Windy:

You are right Windy and I had not even thought about the
possibility that Holly could be a man, rather than a lady. I went to
graduate school with Holly Andrews, very much a man.

Tom

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From: chadmayer at yahoo.com (Chad Mayer) on 2008.06.02 at 15:50:50(17694)
Steve, just my opinion, but ignore this 'tard (male or female). My guess is that its got very little to do with you or your site, and its just someone venting their spleen. Maybe an udergrad taxed from finals. chad

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From: botanist at malesiana.com (Peter Boyce) on 2008.06.02 at 20:48:02(17705)
Hi Steve,

The root tip thing is very interesting. While up at Batang Ai last week took some time to look closely at a very common species of Piptospatha and realized that the active root tip was always coated in cap of viscous gel; looking at root development it dawned on me that the gel was acting as an adhesive; as the root progressed across the rock the gel cap laid down a thin film, much the same as a slug or snail does, and the developing root hairs bound into this, gluing the root to the rock to the extent that attempts to remove older portions the root actually removed fragments of the rock (shale).

The shoot tip thing is that the active shoot is attached to the older part of the stem by a line of weakness that functions as a point of potential disarticulation. When the river flow becomes to great such that the drag on the leafy portion has the potential to dislodge the entire plant, the leafy shoot breaks at the point of weakness and thus by sacrificing the active shoot/s the plan is able to reduce drag and thus prevent total dislodgement. The stumps remaining readily re-sprout, often forming multi-headed plants. Aside from 'saving' the mother plant the 'lost' active shoot tips frequently end up in a suitable environment for re-establishment and thus act as dispersal units. Another interesting aspect of this process is that the disarticulation point 'moves' with the extension of the active shoot and thus only the same size piece of active shoot is shed each time.

Very best

Pete

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From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com (brian lee) on 2008.06.03 at 02:18:04(17711)
Dear Peter,

Aloha. Thank you for answering Steve's inquiry with
this interesting set of observations....do you know of
root glues or stem disarticulations in other plant
genera? What other botanical life history secrets can
you share?

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From: botanist at malesiana.com (Peter Boyce) on 2008.06.09 at 00:35:26(17814)
Hi Leyland,

Sorry for the delay in replying; just been the big Gawai holidays here so a
bit tied up with drinking tuak and eating wild boar.

Root glue occurs in the feeding roots all Asian genera (but not all the
species of each genus) of the Monstereae (e.g., Amydrium, Rhaphidophora,
Scindapsus & Epipremnum), in Anadendreae (Anadendrum only) and in Pothos and
Pedicellarum of Potheae. It is visible as a cap of 'gel' on the active root
tip. The most striking 'caps' are found in the Hookeri complex of
Rhaphidophora (R. hookeri, foraminifera, puberula, todayensis) in which not
only do the active tips of the feeder roots have a very substantial cap but
the climbing roots arise in masses along the stem and produce copious
quantities of gel/slime that not only glues the roots to the climbing
surface but also seems to provide an ideal environment for additional root
development such that pulling one of these from the tree often removes a
fair proportion of the adjacent bark.

Shoot disarticulation so far is found in the Asian rheophytic genera. I have
also observed (in cultivation) the same in W Africa rheophytic Anubias but I
have never been to W Africa and so cannot say whether other African
rheophtyes (Nephthytis, some Cercestis) have disarticulation mechanics.

Very best

Pete

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